█ Full Council Meeting Monday 30 November 2015 at 1:00 p.m.
Council Chamber, Municipal Chambers, The Octagon
█ Agenda – Council – 30/11/2015 (PDF, 39.6 KB)
█ Report – Council – 30/11/2015 (PDF, 7.1 MB)
Mosgiel Pool Future Aquatic Provision
Council 30 November 2015
MOSGIEL POOL FUTURE AQUATIC PROVISION
Department: Parks, Recreation and Aquatics
1. This report presents high level concept design options and associated capital and operating costs for a new aquatic facility in Mosgiel. A decision is required on which, if any option should be progressed to developed design stage to enable more detailed operating costs, capital costs and whole of life cost options to be developed.
2. Staff have conducted a robust process, assisted by aquatic facility development and operation experts, using architects and quantity surveyors with substantial aquatic experience (including Selwyn) and with the input of Sport New Zealand. Despite this, and whilst reaching agreement on a preferred site, there is a fundamental difference between the staff position and that of the Taieri Community Facilities Trust (the Trust).
3. Council staff consider they can deliver a high quality aquatic facility containing two bodies of water that provide for casual recreation (leisure), casual fitness (lap swimming) and learn to swim that will be valued by the Mosgiel community. The Trust does not agree.
4. The estimated total capital cost for this option is approximately $14.4m, based on benchmarking, which can be refined and reduced through developed design, value management and procurement processes.
5. The Trust position is that for the same amount of money, ie approximately $14.4m, a four-pool proposal, as presented in 2014, can be delivered. The staff assessment of this position is that the capital cost is more likely to be approximately $18-20m, based on feedback from Sport New Zealand and the quantity surveyor.
That the Council:
a) Decides that Site A, located adjacent to the existing Mosgiel Pool is the preferred site for the development of a new aquatic facility.
b) Directs officers to progress the option of two bodies of water, delivering leisure, lap and learn to swim activities through to developed design including further refinement of capital costs, operating costs, and the development of whole of life facility costs, and report back to Council in May 2016.
c) Notes the estimated capital cost of the current concept for two bodies of water is $10,458,000 (buildings, siteworks and infrastructure) plus $2,379,500 (fees, consents, furniture and equipment) plus $1,567,000 (project contingency and ground improvement provision); a total of $14,404,500.
d) Notes that the estimated capital cost excludes an escalation provision, currently estimated at 2.8% per annum for the three years until the Council funding is available.
e) Acknowledges the continued commitment of the Taieri Community Facilities Trust to the project, through their participation in the steering group and input into the concept design process.
Author: Jendi Paterson, Parks and Recreation Planning Manager
Authoriser(s): Richard Saunders, Group Manager, Parks, Recreation and Aquatics; Ruth Stokes, General Manager, Infrastructure and Networks
DUNEDIN CITY COUNCIL PROPOSED TAIERI AQUATIC CENTRE – MOSGIEL
19 October 2015
Feedback on Taieri Community Facilities Trust Feasibility Study (November 2014), Warren & Mahoney Architects (WAM) and Barnes Beagley Doherr (BBD) Master Plan and Cost Estimate (September 2015).
1. General observations – There is universal acceptance that the existing Mosgiel Community Pool is an asset at the end of its usefulness and fit with existing and future community needs. The Taieri Community Facilities Trusts (the Trust) Feasibility correctly establishes that historical reports, information and recommendations along with DCC support this view. What is unclear or fully evidenced in the study is:
– What needs assessment and demand are evident and directly related to the size, scale and component mix for the facility required? E.g. need for a FINA certified 10 lane competition pool.
– Confirmation of the likely and sustainable catchment that the centre will serve?
– The impact of the proposed facility on the existing aquatic network?
– What is the projects full capital cost and whole of life affordability for the community?
3. Site and location – It is agreed that Memorial Park is the preferred site for the development of a new aquatic centre. The Feasibility Study promotes the use of a site that impacts significantly the existing Memorial Park Gardens. This option seems unnecessary given the other options available at the park to DCC. Of the subsequent locations within the park proposed by Warren and Mahoney Architects (20.09.15) those sites favoured are those that enable the existing pool to operate during any development period, impact adjacent residents the least, provides multiple points of entry, maximises existing car parking and allows for future expansion should be considered. In this context Site A and Site B are favoured. Site A may offer the opportunity to upgrade and integrate the Caravan Park operation into the new facility, management model and provide a positive revenue stream for the centre.
6. Funding Strategy – the expectation placed on the Trust to raise 50% ($7.5m) of the capital cost of the project is considered unrealistic and unfair. Despite the optimism of the Trust would be unachievable by the second half of 2016 as identified in the Trusts timeline for achieving the pledged funding target. Undoubtedly, this would place extreme pressure of exiting funding agencies and fundraising organisations delivering alternative community outcomes and services for some time. One needs to ask the question – is the same expectation places on communities of interest to raise 50% of funding for developments of public libraries, community halls, sport parks and other public amenities?
Conclusion, the size scale and complexity of the proposed aquatic centre seems to address the wants rather than the needs of the community. Justification of the overall component mix, the need for 10 v’s 8 lanes, competitive aquatic sport needs v’s wider community recreation, wellness and entertainment (youth and older adults) would benefit from closer consideration given the significant level of investment under consideration. The size and extent of the projected catchment population may be inflated and with minimal consideration given to the impact of the new centre on the existing aquatic network of facilities and in its current form designed to compete rather than compliment Moana Pool. The assessment of capital cost seems consistent based on similar south island projects and assessment of construction rates without due consideration to those costs currently excluded. The projected operating budget is not inclusive of all relevant costs (debt repayments and depreciation) nor does it consider the whole of life costs for the assets which will require the need for an ongoing level of operational subsidy.
[screenshots – click to enlarge]
Related Posts and Comments:
16.9.15 DCC Please Explain —Mosgiel pool design to Warren & Mahoney
● 7.8.15 MOU DCC and TCFT New Aquatic Facility #MosgielPool
● 24.7.15 Hands off Mosgiel Memorial Gardens
● 23.7.15 Dunedin ratepayers —Green Island best site for city pool users…
● 22.7.15 DCC Long Term Plan 2015/16 – 2024/25
● 19.5.15 Mosgiel pool trust conflicts of interest #bigfishsmallpond
18.5.15 NEWSFLASH —Mosgiel pool, tracking [PONT] . . . .
17.5.15 Cr Vandervis on DCC project budgets
● 4.5.15 DCC: Draft LTP matter —‘Unfunded Mosgiel Aquatic Facilities’
● 7.5.15 DCC Draft LTP 2015/16-2024/25 —public submissions online
● 12.4.15 Mosgiel pool trust calls on Dunedin ratepayers to fund distant complex
1.4.15 ‘Pooling Together’ (TCFT) loses chairman, resigns [see Wanaka pool]
28.3.15 DCC Draft LTP 2015/16 to 2024/25 —CONSULTATION OPEN
25.3.15 DCC Long Term Plan: Green-dyed chickens home to roost
11.3.15 Mosgiel pool trust PLAINLY hasn’t got ‘$7.5M community support’
● 6.3.15 Propaganda from trust for Taieri pool project #Mosgiel
● 2.3.15 DCC: Mosgiel Pool private workshop Tuesday (tomorrow) [renders]
● 20.2.15 Taieri Aquatic Centre: 2nd try for SECRET meeting —hosted by Mayor
● 13.2.15 ‘Taieri Aquatic Centre’, email from M. Stedman via B. Feather
● 10.2.15 Dunedin City Councillors invited to Secret Meeting #Mosgiel
14.1.15 DCC Draft Long Term Plan: more inanity from Cull’s crew pending
11.10.14 New Mosgiel Pool trust declared —(ready to r**t)
23.7.14 Mosgiel Pool: Taieri Times, ODT…. mmm #mates
16.7.14 Stadium: Exploiting CST model for new Mosgiel Pool #GOBs
● 4.2.14 DCC: Mosgiel Pool, closed-door parallels with stadium project…
30.1.14 DCC broke → More PPPs to line private pockets and stuff ratepayers
20.1.14 DCC Draft Annual Plan 2014/15 [see this comment & ff]
16.11.13 Community board (Mosgiel-Taieri) clandestine meetings
25.1.12 Waipori Fund – inane thinkings from a councillor
19.5.10 DScene – Public libraries, Hillside Workshops, stadium, pools
12.4.10 High-performance training pool at stadium?
Posted by Elizabeth Kerr
34 responses to “DCC report: Mosgiel Pool Future Aquatic Provision”
O yessss “…high level concept design options and associated capital and operating costs for a new aquatic facility in Mosgiel…” dream big visions, praise de Lawd, and grasp the o.p.m.
(other people’s money)
Analogy: Why after all should the Mosgiel pool trust have to raise 50% when other sports facilities (see stadium) did not.
The curse of precedence or like Hopalong Cassidy.
“The stadium rides to our debt AGAIN”
Gurglars. The trust is a copy cat of the CST. It is even loaded with CST supporters. At the end of the day the 50% that the trust are supposed to raise will end up in the ratepayers’ lap.
All the trust wants to do is get the construction started, then there will be no stopping it. The trust can then fail in their fund raising, and the ratepayers pick up the tab. Sounds familiar.
The Trust will have achieved its objective of a new pool and to hell with the fund raising.
This has the horrible stench of ‘Stadium’ all over it. First kill the existing facility as being ‘at the end of its life’ (Carisbrook not up to test standard). Next get the basic $14.4m option signed off. (The not a penny more than $188m Stadium). Then ‘mutter something about the Trust raising $7.5m (Stadium Private Funding of $45m). Then obfuscate, and escalate until it becomes $18-20m (Stadium $225m). Then the Trust sort of melts away and not a dollar of the $7.5m is seen (Stadium Private Funding put to bed by PricewaterhouseCoopers saying that any PF that might have been seen was never construction capital).
Result, a complex finally costing upwards of $300m totally debt funded and at the foot of the ratepayers. (Stadium costing ratepayers in excess of $20m per year despite all the B/S put out by the bureaucrats.) The operating expenses and depreciation another ratepayer cost conveniently forgotten.
Watch for the snow job done on councillors at the meeting on the 30th.
So bloody predictable.
Ms Mosley a bit floored by Sport New Zealand’s peer review. Oh noes, she knows better. A little hum.
### ODT Online Fri, 27 Nov 2015
Concerns raised in report over Mosgiel pool
By Chris Morris
The fate of Mosgiel’s proposed aquatic facility could hang in the balance amid concerns a budget blowout could push the project’s cost up to $20million. Dunedin City Council staff, in a report to be considered at Monday’s council meeting, have outlined concerns the project’s key goals are “unrealistic”.
Isn’t that the classic way to do it – ‘concerns the project’s key goals are “unrealistic” ‘ – so that by the time some cuts have been made (nudgy-winky procedure) the plan as originally designed, pre-Extras For Throwing Away, is approved? Then there will be much talk about how rigorously the council has husbanded ratepayers’ money, and much histrionic breast-beating from the pool party about how savage the cuts have been….. Sing it again
It seems to me I’ve heard that song before
It’s from an old familiar score I know it well, that melody
(Words by Sammy Cahn)
Slight hitch. For Taieri Community Facilities Trust (TCFT).
Council is requiring a city-wide needs assessment for pool facilities before it decides the next step for any proposed Mosgiel Pool. This could take some months. Funny that.
This is DCC unravelling any pressing need to build a new pool at Mosgiel. I like it – except that DCC really needs to upgrade facilities at the existing pool in the short term, and as previously budgeted. Also, I like the idea from Warren and Mahoney Architects, of upgrading Mosgiel’s camping ground to produce a revenue stream for the existing pool (which is its neighbour).
What happened, did someone put Bach Wake-up Wemedy in the water?
DCC really is too broke to buy a whole new pool complex. Is what happened. What dem prudential limits sssstrikkkkkkke. For the very First Time.
Cr Lord suggested a [Calder Stewart] cheap simple shed to house a simple warm pool and a spa.
Cr Lord is the one to watch on the pool issue. He wasn’t happy with the $30,000 that the council gave to the pool trust. He wanted them to have $80,000. Then he suggested a targeted rate.
A $282,000 capital value home on the Taieri could pay an extra $197 on top of their rate bill.
A $564,000 home an extra $394.
A $2 million farm an extra $1576, and a $4 million farm an extra $3152.
Now it appears that he is looking at a Calder Stewart model. Might be alright for a milking shed out on the Taieri, but not good enough for the residential area of Mosgiel.
What ever will Cr Lord come up with next ?
I threw the Calder Stewart thing in as a joke. But Cr Lord did genuinely raise the question, in the context of then debate and given Lawrence pool, that a high spec pool complex maybe isn’t needed for Mosgiel. And like he said, maybe all that’s required is a new shed with a warm pool and a spa.
The argument is academic in any case – since Councillors agreed yesterday that a city-wide needs assessment for pool facilities must be completed by staff before any further decisions can be made for Mosgiel. The assessment will take in population distribution and catchments, amongst other things.
Finally someone opened a window of the Council Chambers and let some oxygen in. Result, the Mosgiel Pool item is to be part of a city-wide needs assessment for pool facilities by staff before any further decisions can be made for Mosgiel. Staff might at the same time take a look at the financial position of the city. Too much to hope for? I think so.
### ODT Online Tue, 1 Dec 2015
Mosgiel pool decision deferred
By Craig Borley
Judgement day has not come yet for Mosgiel’s proposed aquatic centre, with the Dunedin City Council choosing not to make any decision on the pool’s future yesterday. Councillors at the full council meeting voted unanimously to defer until next year a decision on the pool’s future, giving council staff, and pool advocate the Taieri Community Facilities Trust, more time to absorb and counter last week’s report into the pool’s future.
● The proposal would likely come before the council in the second quarter of next year, to be included in 2016-17 annual plan deliberations.
I suppose some of the $30,000 ratepayer hand out to the trust for the pool research will now be used for the piss up for the trust members that Mr Woodcock refers to.
Sounds familiar, remember ORFU, the black tie dinner.
In Dunedin Santa says “Deja vu-hu-hu.”
Tue, 5 Apr 2016
ODT: Frustration over delay in pool decision
Dunedin city councillor Mike Lord is questioning the length of time it is taking the council to make up its mind on Mosgiel’s proposed multimillion-dollar aquatic centre. Cr Lord made the comments after councillors, council staff and members of the Taieri Community Facilities Trust looked at aquatic facilities from Dunedin to Christchurch in order to find examples that could be replicated in Mosgiel.
Why did the trust and councillors visit primary pools, and not secondary pools when considering Mosgiel’s requirements for a new pool? The Ashburton and Selwyn pools are the primary pools for the area that they serve? The Mosgiel pool will only be a secondary pool for the area. Moana Pool being the primary pool for the area.
The trust and councillors are not comparing apples with apples when they visit primary pools when considering the needs for a secondary pool in Mosgiel.
DCC will be able to discuss this, surely. It’ll be a popular question.
Cr Lord’s comments. “I don’t think the Mosgiel people have ever asked for a grandiose facility.”
Where have you been Cr Lord? The Mosgiel people have spoken. Didn’t the trust tell us that they had hundreds lined up with the $7 million ready to go for the four pool complex.
Until the good people and charitable funding sources in the community actually start depositing into a well-governed and accountable capital fund for the pool complex there is no $7M.
$7M in a tough domestic economy is a big ask, I don’t envy the pool trust whose mission it is to build those funds, especially given all the competitors for charitable funds. Further, the annual operational costs and how they’ll be met is still not declared. The public will want to know that before donations commence (pledges are not enough). In the meantime funded upgrades to the existing pool should happen, that should be DCC’s prerogative (maybe it is). Birdseye view: Mosgiel obviously needs a better pool facility. In my view all Mosgiel and Taieri residents need to be able to access a (new) pool according to their abilities, and for that reason a couple of shuttle buses with wheelchair hoist should be community funded for the Taieri area if not already provided (??). Any pool has to be egalitarian for access or it’s not worth doing.
Will the new Mosgiel pool now have to raise further funds to allow Muslim women to have separate facilities and staff, as appears to be happening in other parts of the country ?
Do have some cultural awareness, Jacob. There are many Muslim people living in New Zealand, and have been for a long time. They are New Zealanders, or will become so, gladly.
Yes, so why suddenly “separate facilities and staff” for Muslim women? Intriguing.
█ Councillors voted unanimously to defer decision on new Mosgiel pool in November last year; council staff disagreed with trust’s $14.4million estimate for four-pool complex, and recommended two-pool design instead.
Wed, 13 Apr 2016
ODT: Progress being made in pool funding talks
Communication between parties negotiating a bid for Dunedin City Council funding for Mosgiel’s proposed multimillion-dollar aquatic centre is steadily improving, one of the drivers of the project says. […] Councillors, council staff and members of the Taieri Community Facilities Trust looked at aquatic facilities from Dunedin to Christchurch last week to find examples that could be built in Mosgiel.
It appears the council has reneged on conducting a survey of (future) pool facility needs for the greater Dunedin area as ‘Mossie’ partisan persuasion kicks in….. WHY. I dunno. Let’s keep suburban sprawl going over productive farmland on the Taieri – so DCC can call it ‘economic development’ (growth —LOL), NOT plain old migration from the older city.
um … probably because council is now going to be elected at large, existing councilors now see Mosgiel votes in play and want to bid for them
It will be interesting to watch how these wannabes handle the Mosgiel pool issue, especially if they renege on the South Dunedin library and flooding problems to buy Mosgiel votes.
Sat, 7 May 2016
ODT: Mosgiel four-pool concept plan deal
The group behind Mosgiel’s proposed new pool is about to start developing a design for a four-pool facility, after an agreement with the Dunedin City Council. [Taieri Communities Facility Trust chairwoman Irene Mosley] said the council had agreed a complex could be built for less than $15 million, as the trust had said all along.
Four pools? Only 4? Will that be enough? Surely they could get 8 for less than a mere $30 million, discount for quantity.
And if they’re getting 8 why skimp, they’re sure to need more capacity in future so go for 10 or a dozen, depending on whether they favour decimal or imperial.
Thank goodness we can be confident that the cost won’t go over $15 million. We’d be shocked, nay aghast if that happened.
Wouldn’t it have been awful if the Fubar Stadium had gone over $188 million (not a cent more)? Dunedin would be deeply in debt now if that had happened.
They will surely have plenty of water for the new pool out at Mosgiel. With the neglect of securing funds by both council and the community board to fix the storm water problems out there now, the flood waters could be diverted direct to the pool to save pumping costs.
Of course the proposed Mosgiel Pool will cost +$20million, and MUCH MORE given Dunedin Ratepayers also have to operate The Pet Project in each year following.
There is no Mystery about this Outstanding Waste of Dunedin Ratepayer Money paraded as a Vote Catcher for this year’s local body elections, by Mayor Cull and his Ex Greater Dunedin Crew [give us a bloody break] and hangers on like Cr Hawkins (Green Party) and misfit-now-green-or-desperate Cr Benson-Pope. Don’t get us started on Jinters. The fact that the pool trust chair Irene Mosley campaigned unsuccessfully on the Greater Dunedin ticket at the last elections tells us what exactly.
Have Dunedin Ratepayers learnt Nothing from the squalid EXPENSIVE rort fabricated and rolled out by the Carisbrook Stadium Charitable Trust for the deep-debt Stadium debacle.
As a consequence of Mr Farry’s stunning endeavours with his private trust —our Dunedin City Council now has a Consolidated Debt of +$600 MILLION that is not going away anytime soon; is responsible for appalling RATES INCREASES in the order of 300% over the rate of inflation; and NO DIVIDENDS are payable (to offset rates) from the DCHL group of companies for at least THREE YEARS.
Meanwhile the council-owned companies Delta and Aurora are going down in flames, month by month it seems – not helped by Delta as first mortgagee, about to try its luck in the High Court at Christchurch defending serious charges through its Security Sharing Agreement with Gold Band Finance (see enormous failings at Noble Subdivision at Yaldhurst, with a +$20million exposure for Dunedin Ratepayers). And Aurora is in serious trouble with the lines companies regulator, the Commerce Commission. Aurora to all purposes is Delta.
So which part of the “lovely” Mosgiel Pet Pool Project makes sense right now. Huh ?
Sat, 11 Jun 2016
ODT: Trust closes in on Mosgiel pool site
The trust behind a proposed four-pool facility in Mosgiel says it is close to finalising a site for the project. Fundraising and design could not be started until a site was confirmed. […] The Dunedin City Council has set aside $6million in the 2018-19 budget for the pool and the additional funds would need to be raised by the trust.
The danger : Taieri Community Facilities Trust and Friends
The only pool activity that is going on in Mosgiel at the moment is happening at the Mosgiel RSA, on Thursday nights. Bring your own cue.
Someone posted a comment on the St Clair Action Group Facebook that there are 900 line poles within Dunedin City needing urgent replacement but there is no money for the work. If this is true then we ratepayers and electricity consumers should be worried. I am because one of these poles lies just outside my house and has been in need of replacement for over a year.
Lyndon, can you supply the link to that FB comment ? Cheers.
Forget it Lyndon – “core business ain’t no business, ain’t no business they know”.