Dunedin City Councillors invited to Secret Meeting #Mosgiel

Updated post Thu, 12 Feb 2015 at 6:40 p.m.

TaieriAquaticCentre-CapabilityStudy 6 Nov 2014 (PDF, 7 MB)

Received from Night Rider
Submitted on 2015/02/10 at 12:55 pm

Look what I found in the rubbish in Bath St, at 2am this morning.
Notice to all Councillors of a SPECIAL SECRET MEETING.
The Taieri Community Facilities Trust would like to invite Councillors to a discussion on the Spatial Plan with the Trust and members of the Mosgiel-Taieri Community Board.
It appears that the proposed Aquatic development may not sit within the Spatial Plan’s intent.
█ Downes Room, Mosgiel Public Library at 7.30pm on Tuesday, 17 February.

I now cordially invite the public to this secret meeting if you are interested in who this group thinks they are representing. I am sure that the Councillors would be interested in what the actual inhabitants of Mosgiel think rather than those who work in the shadows of darkness, under the cloak of secrecy, representing none other than developers and interested main street business people, who see a great financial gain if this project [‘Taieri Aquatic Centre’] goes ahead at the selected site.

My reply: Night Rider, how many Councillors would think it prudent to show up to such a clandestine self-interested sort of meeting !!? This is what housing sprawl lobbyists do isn’t it. Wonder what kickbacks are proposed to buy the Council’s vote.

Received from Night Rider
Submitted on 2015/02/10 at 2:27 pm

Another titbit that fell out of the Bath St rubbish this morning was a summary of a Community Board Workshop held recently. Board members in attendance actually suggested that they have a closed Facebook page – to share ideas. More Secrecy. Elected to represent their communities, but want to have a secret Facebook page for themselves. Not good, sounds a bit like the old East European style.
An interesting contribution from the Mosgiel Mob at the combined community boards meeting. They were crowing that the success story has been community consultation and engagement. Maybe someone from out Mosgiel way would like to comment on that one. Night Rider hasn’t been out that way recently, must get out there and check my traps.

Taieri Community Facilities Trust (aka ‘Pooling Together’) — Who we are

[click to enlarge]
Pool 2Pool 4Pool 5Pool 6Pool 7These scanned images (supplied) were presented in a project report from the Taieri Community Facilities Trust to the Council during pre-draft Long Term Plan 2015/16 meetings in January. Extra copies were provided for the public gallery. [site plan and renders: Baker Garden Architects]

█ The private trust expects DCC to be the major funder for the (note: under-calculated) +$17 million pool project, which is only achievable if the Council increases its borrowing.

Related Posts and Comments:
11.10.14 New Mosgiel Pool trust declared —(ready to r**t)
23.7.14 Mosgiel Pool: Taieri Times, ODT…. mmm #mates
16.7.14 Stadium: Exploiting CST model for new Mosgiel Pool #GOBs
● 4.2.14 DCC: Mosgiel Pool, closed-door parallels with stadium project…
30.1.14 DCC broke → More PPPs to line private pockets and stuff ratepayers
20.1.14 DCC Draft Annual Plan 2014/15 [see this comment & ff]
16.11.13 Community board (Mosgiel-Taieri) clandestine meetings
25.1.12 Waipori Fund – inane thinkings from a councillor
19.5.10 DScene – Public libraries, Hillside Workshops, stadium, pools
12.4.10 High-performance training pool at stadium?

Posted by Elizabeth Kerr


Filed under Architecture, Business, Construction, DCC, Democracy, Design, Economics, Events, Geography, Hot air, Name, New Zealand, People, Pics, Politics, Project management, Property, Site, Sport, Town planning, Urban design, What stadium

24 responses to “Dunedin City Councillors invited to Secret Meeting #Mosgiel

  1. Rob Hamlin

    The deadline to release Appendix E (the bit on which they claim that we will happily give them $7.5 million) of the Pool Trust’s report to me under the LGOIMA expired today – no word – no surprises there.

  2. Jacob

    Night Rider: Are you sure that you got it right about the board crowing about how they have had successful community consultation. The only public meeting they have had about the pool was to tell us what they had decided for us, and not to ask what the local community wanted. Night Rider, I think you might have ruffled a few feathers.

  3. Knighit Rider, it’s people like you cause Unrest. We had the same problem at Bath and West, with aspersions cast on our lovely Roman Baths. I’ll have you know Clavdivs swam in there. Burgher of SW England.

  4. Anonymous

    It’s like a weird sort of Where’s Wally in those photos. You’ve got models, models with trendy handbags, models with beachballs, a woman at serious risk of ACC-related injury claim with those heels on that path, another who seems to have a hair condition given all that scratching, and what looks to be Ninja’s or very serious authority figures dressed in black. I’d also be worried about that woman who seems to be lost in the corner of the last photo – sure I’ve seen that effect used in thrillers just before the person totally snaps. There’s still more to find though – the man nonchalantly levitating in the deep end and the woman who seems to have dropped her foot. The self-interest groups made great games like this too when promoting their stadium.

  5. Night Rider

    Got out to check my traps out Mosgiel way last night. It appears that some of the bait has been taken. It appears that there has been a whale of a time out there, quite a lot of feathers lying around, and a funny smell drifting in the air, of you know what coming from one particular address. As I came back to town I noticed that Bath St, had been given a good clean up. No more rubbish lying around, pity about that. Word has gone out at head office to be more careful when disposing of sensitive material.

  6. Elizabeth

    Seems the old spray and walk away has worked for irksome spot removal. A temporary state, given the sums, starlets and speculative properties involved, wider picture. Your work is not yet done at Mollywood, Night Rider.

  7. Elizabeth

    Meanwhile at Waimate, a councillor resigns…. (would the same happen at DCC over the unruly if unfathomable FUBAR stadium cost balloon, the horrendously expensive cycleways (for how many declared users??!! – less than 1500 people at Dunedin cycle to work, according to Statistics NZ), or the deceitful mushrooming ‘stadium 2’ Mosgiel Pool project for land developers)….


    • Hype O'Thermia

      Elizabeth: “…the horrendously expensive cycleways (for how many declared users??!! ”
      Look ahead, spot the connections.
      1. Rates and “user pays” costs constantly rising, much faster than incomes.
      2. More and more people unable to afford to run a car.
      3. Forced to use bicycles no matter how inconvenient and how many individual and family activities are no longer feasible.
      4. Council triumphantly points to usage figures “proving” it was worth all that extra debt …. that’s causing [return to beginning (1)] ……

      • Elizabeth

        Hype O’Thermia, how ever did I forget this very sensible or was it progressive, reverse logic.
        You are right. All good things come to those who wait, are massaged, are given no options from their liege lords. Are shafted. Are crippled.

      • @ Hype O’Thermia
        February 11, 2015 at 1:40 pm

        Hype try this. Resource 1. Facts and figures – NZ Transport Agency
        Resource 1 – Facts and figures

        2. Increasing car use
        Travel to work
        • Travel to work is the largest travel category and most dependent on driving.
        • 77% of individuals drove a car to work in 2006, an increase from 73.9% in 1996.7

        Simple NZ wide trend

  8. hypeothermia

    But Mick – “Simple NZ wide trend” it may be, however Dunedin is different, just ask Daaave and Jinty. Anyway Dunedin has a bottomless magic jar of money next to the jar of decaffeinated sustainable organic coffee in councillors’ “sit down and ease your brain strain” room.

    • But of course – the bottomless magic jar! Damn – Why didn’t I think of that! Then its alright innit.

    • James

      *cough* 2006 *cough*
      More recently, the distance travelled by car is flat, but declining on a per person and per car basis. Younger people are less likely to be getting their licences. Those are the NZ wide trends.
      Of course, Dunedin could be different. Over 55 year olds are driving more. And it may be that people are still driving to work, but doing less other driving.
      And it will certainly be interesting to see the 2014 data when it becomes available, to see if the economic growth and lower petrol prices change the trend.

      Click to access fd-peak-car.pdf

      • @James
        February 12, 2015 at 10:33 pm
        *cough* 2006 *cough*
        More recently, the distance travelled by car is flat, but declining on a per person and per car basis. Younger people are less likely to be getting their licences. Those are the NZ wide trends.

        James your reference (http://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/Our-Work/Documents/fd-peak-car.pdf) provides an interesting read but where the data revealed a somewhat tortured to death one. In the end though the document is not a policy statement but a discussion document that essentially told us nothing. Certainly not sufficient to spend so much on Dunedin’s infrastructure at a time when we are facing such horrendous debt to repay. And very flimsy evidence for a possible increase in use for it.

      • James

        Mick – “essentially told us nothing”
        Except your “New Zealand wide trend” has reversed since 2006
        – flat Light Vehicle [cars] Kilometres Travelled
        – lower Vehicle Kilometres [cars] Travelled per capita
        – lower levels of young people driving
        If you prefer your facts not wrapped in “discussion”, try here
        Some Dunedin sites seem flat. Some, like SH1 Castle, seem to have dropped by over a third (~7000 vehicles a day) since 2006.

        • @James
          February 13, 2015 at 10:02 am
          If you prefer your facts not wrapped in “discussion”,

          What I am saying is that this ‘discussion paper’ told us nothing that would be useful to develop a policy to drive a development such as the cycleway system for Dunedin or indeed for that matter a policy that might perhaps persuade the council to run the buses here. Nor did it pretend to do that.

          There was a lot of conflicting information contained in that document including these “► 2013 data shows some bounce back‘ in total VKT as the New Zealand economy performs strongly through 2013.”
          “There was a strong increase in both population and vehicle sales in 2013.”

          People still prefer to travel by motor vehicle presumably because it is flexible and convenient and they seem to want to do that. What this council and many other bureaucrats seem intent upon is to spend other people’s money to provide alternative options that are little used or needed.

        • James

          “People still prefer to travel by motor vehicle”
          Which explains the 25% drop in youth driver licencing in Dunedin, and the fewer cars on the road round the city.

        • @James
          February 14, 2015 at 8:18 p.m.
          “Which explains the 25% drop in youth driver licensing in Dunedin, and the fewer cars on the road round the city.”

          James I don’t know why there was as you say a drop in youth driver licensing in Dunedin. There could be many causes for these two phenomena such as people leaving Dunedin through lack of jobs, or not bothering to get licences. Nor does this statement say anything about alternative means of transport they might use instead. So I fail to see that this explains anything.

          But according to NZTA regarding the NZ Light fleet growth rate:
          The rate of fleet growth in 2013 was the highest since the financial crisis, and not far short of the very high growth in 2003-2005. It is growing again.

          Your statement seems to be in contradiction of this recent comment (below) regarding the growth in vehicle purchases.
          “That would explain why there was a rush for young people applying for them then as quoted Automobile Association spokesman Simon Lambourne said there had been a rush of young people in Dunedin applying for driver’s licences.”

          I know that Dunedin is not growing but this would affect all modes of transport.

  9. Rob Hamlin

    I have been informed by Sandy Graham that the elusive ‘Appendix E’ has now been posted on the Pool Trust’s website. This information appears to be correct. It appears to be complete and may be accessed by the following link:

    Click to access TaieriAquaticCentre-CapabilityStudy.pdf

    It is a remarkable document. I recommend that you read it in full and save yourselves a copy.

    • Elizabeth

      █ Thanks Rob, the document is now also available via the updated post, top of this thread. (via What if? Media Library)

      Remarkability of document noted. Meantime, re spearheading project – who will be paid to be the “insistent voice” of the pool project?!

      Is DCC expected to pay that salary, as applies for pet mushroom project Gigatown.

  10. Tom

    Thank you Rob for your efforts in obtaining ‘Appendix E’. It is obvious why they didn’t want the public to see this report.
    One only has to read as far as page 4, “The interviews”. Then throw it in the bin.
    “Thirty eight people connected with the pool and the Taieri district participated in the interview programme. This included current Trustees, community leadership representatives and some potential supporters from the Taieri community.”
    This has been nothing but an exercise in navel gazing, and they haven’t even got the spine to put their name to their comments. That makes their comments as good as arse paper. Full of shit.

  11. Hype O'Thermia

    Oh yes, my kind of interviews!
    “We gathered to discuss whether any of us thought our plan wasn’t brilliant. Incisive chit-chat revealed we all agreed, and congratulated one another on its excellence.
    Jammy scones provided by Mr Sycophant’s wife with cream courtesy of Mrs O’Leary’s cow brought the gathering to an amiably replete end and we all left in a glow of outer and inner self-satisfaction.”

    • Semper Fidelis

      Breathtaking stuff. When we consider that Christ only had 12 apostles and got nailed to a cross for his troubles, what might we expect from an organiser that found 38 apostles? Seriously though, it’s a total wank. The exercise has clearly been tailored to fit a predetermined outcome. There appears to have been no input from any soul outside the inner apostlistic circle. That would have threatened dissenting views and consequent exposure of a totally vacuous exercise. Note that this grand funding plan has been predicated upon the views of (apparently) 38 supporters who have declined to be named and offer no tangible evidence that these phantom ‘donors’ even exist. Essentially the report represents the outcome of a discussion between a group of ‘enthusiasts’ who believe in the existence of a panacea. So they have taken a $30,000 grant from the ratepayers, interviewed their respective navels, and concluded that the City which is drowning in debt, will ‘debt fund’ $7.5M and the enthusiasts will find another $7.5M from the community. Yeah right! At no cost at all, I could conclude an equally ridiculous proposal that will show that there are also fairies at the bottom of the garden, the fox will guard the hen house, and my arse is a fire truck.

  12. Anne Elliot

    I concur with others that Appendix E of the Taieri Aquatics Facility Report is incredibly weak and really does reek of the so-called curtain-raiser Carisbrook survey report. Cast in the same mould, it gives emphasis to the need to cultivate perceptions – and keeping that notion private. As a qualitative researcher, I strongly object to the sample selection and the shallowness of the questions. The interpretation of responses from 38 people, who are all FOR the proposed pool, is feeble.

    On the Revenue Assumptions (Taieri Aquatics Facility Report, p55), it is suggested that ALL members of the 30,600 assumed catchment population will EACH visit the pool 8 times (per year, I assume) at $3.26 to provide an estimated income of $798,000. Yes, true. I got my calculator out and that’s the figure you get. Is it conceivable that on average, everyone will visit 8 times per year or have I missed something?

    It might well be that a new pool in Mosgiel is highly desirable, but have most people not grasped that the DCC is indebted up to its eyeballs?

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