“Fat” gawky Hotel and Apartment building : Questionable design even with 4 floors lopped off

What environmental considerations, Mr Page?

More than minor.

[Everyone will remember the learned Mr Page from the Betterways hotel and apartment building application for 41 Wharf St at the waterfront, not so long ago.]

Mr Bryce (independent planner): …a “key concern” for submitters…the building would block sun from reaching the Regent Theatre and surrounds from 3pm at winter solstice. “At this time of year, the proposal will effectively remove all remaining access to sunlight received over [the] southern end of the western side of the Octagon.” (ODT)

Mr Page (the developer’s ‘Brief’): The “potential shading effect” was acknowledged, but Mr Page was confident the hotel’s benefits “will far outweigh” those concerns. (ODT)

Mr Page, again : The hotel’s “tall, slender built form” minimised the impact on those living closest to the hotel project site… (ODT)

Good heavens.

Source: Application documents

At Facebook:

### ODT Online Tue, 11 July 2017
Hotel developer still confident
By Chris Morris
Dunedin’s latest five-star hotel bid will “not be viable” if the developer is forced to reduce the building’s height, it has been claimed. But the man behind the project, Tekapo businessman Anthony Tosswill, remains confident the hearings panel set to decide the project’s fate can yet be swayed by the hotel’s benefits. The comments came from Phil Page, the lawyer acting for Mr Tosswill, days after the public release of an independent planner’s report running the ruler over the hotel proposal.
The report by Nigel Bryce concluded consent be declined unless Mr Tosswill agreed to a “substantial reduction” in the building’s height, by four storeys, to bring it down from 60m to 45.5m.
Read more


Resource Consent Application LUC 2017-48 and SUB 2017-26, 143 – 193 Moray Place, Dunedin (Proposed Hotel)

The hearing will be held on Mon 31 Jul, Tue 1 Aug, Wed 2 Aug, Thu 3 Aug and Fri 4 Aug 2017 in the Edinburgh Room, Municipal Chambers (off the Octagon). The hearing will commence at 9.30 am each day.

Consultant Planner’s Section 42a Report (PDF, 4.3 MB)


[5] For the reasons set out in paragraphs 72 to 334 below, I consider that the Proposal in its current form, will not promote the sustainable management of natural and physical resources in accordance with Part 2 of the Resource Management Act 1991 (RMA or the Act).
[6] The Development promotes a contemporary design, which is considered acceptable within this setting and articulates sufficient design interest and modulation through the facades and its pinwheel like form expressed in the tower component of the building. The building’s design incorporates a base building or podium, which allows the structure to have an active street frontage to Moray Place and Filleul Street, which is considered a positive design response.
[7] The Development will be ‘juxtaposed’ against a backdrop of the heritage buildings located to the east of Moray Place, including the Town Hall and St Paul’s Cathedral when viewed from the west and St Paul’s Cathedral and the Municipal Chambers when viewed from the south (including from the Octagon).
[8] The building’s overall height is considered to generate an over-dominance on properties to the north and west of the Site, and will have more than minor adverse effects on the amenity values of residential properties to the west of the Site. This is largely due to the significant change in scale introduced by the Development and the lower scale built environment that currently exists to the west and north of the development site, comprising predominantly two to three storeys in height.
[9] The Development will adversely impact upon the townscape values of the TH02 Octagon townscape precinct under the Operative Dunedin City District Plan (Operative Plan), including loss of sunlight penetration into the Octagon during the Winter Solstice and will adversely impact upon the setting and pre-eminence of existing heritage buildings such as the St Paul’s Cathedral and the Municipal Chambers building when viewed from the Octagon.
[10] The Development is considered to result in more than minor visual amenity and shading effects on Kingsgate Hotel to the south of the Site. The Kingsgate Hotel will experience prolonged and more sustained loss of light over a wider part of the property and associated buildings over the critical morning period during the Equinox and Winter Solstice periods (or collectively over ¾ of the year). This conclusion has been reached having regard to the potential for the Site to be developed up to a maximum height of 11 metres with a building erected against all boundaries (the ‘controlled activity building outline’).
[11] For the scale of the building to be mitigated to an acceptable level, and to maintain and enhance the amenity values of the City Centre and wider environs, Council’s urban design consultant, Mr [Garth] Falconer recommends reducing the proposed building height by four levels to bring the total height down to nine storeys (Level 13, +157,500 (datum level) on Drawing Section AA). This reduction would provide for a maximum height of 45.6 metres from existing ground level, or a maximum height breach of 34.4 metres (including the lift shaft). This mitigation response would not remove any of the 210 visitor accommodation rooms (hotel rooms), and would maintain supporting facilities including licensed premises, retail, conference, meeting facilities and on-site amenities, parking, and servicing areas. I note, for completeness, that the Applicant is not currently proposing to reduce the height of the Development.
[12] In its current form, it is my recommendation that the proposal should be declined.

More about Garth Falconer, DCC’s consulting urban designer:
LinkedIn profile: https://nz.linkedin.com/in/garth-falconer-a0699bb3
Owner and Director, Reset Urban Design Ltd: http://reseturban.co.nz/

Take a glimpse of the ‘urban form’ at Takapuna, North Shore Auckland (his home turf), to know Mr Falconer is likely missing any handle on building height for a heritage city like Dunedin.


Agenda and all documents including Submissions at:



At Facebook [see comments]:

### ODT Online Sat, 8 Jul 2017
Reject hotel bid: planner
By Chris Morris
A planner has recommended rejecting Dunedin’s latest five-star hotel bid, unless the developer agrees to a “substantial reduction” in the building’s height. The recommendation to decline consent came in a report by independent consultant Nigel Bryce, made public yesterday, ahead of the public hearing beginning on July 31. In his report to the panel of independent commissioners, Mr Bryce said the hotel development would “visually dominate” its surroundings, including the town hall, St Paul’s Cathedral and the Municipal Chambers. It would be the tallest building in the central city and would cast a shadow over the Octagon, as well as the nearby Kingsgate Hotel, during winter. Together with other impacts, the development was considered to be “non-complying” under the city’s district plan rules. It would only be acceptable if the building was reduced by four storeys, lowering its overall height from 60m to 45.6m, which was still well above the existing 11m height limit for the site, his report said.
Read more

[initial coverage]
7.7.17 ODT: Decline hotel consent: report

### ODT Online Wed, 28 Jun 2017
Two from North Island on hotel hearings panel
By Chris Morris
The panel to decide the fate of Dunedin’s latest five-star hotel bid features one familiar face and two from the North Island. Tekapo businessman Anthony Tosswill’s bid to build a 17-storey hotel and apartment tower in Dunedin would be considered over five days, beginning on July 31, it was confirmed yesterday. […] The panel of three would be headed by chairman Andrew Noone, now an Otago regional councillor, acting in his role as an independent commissioner. […] Alongside him will be fellow independent commissioners Stephen Daysh, of Napier, and Gavin Lister, of Auckland.
Read more

Related Posts and Comments:
● 14.5.17 RNZ reports July hearings for proposed hotel apartment building [comments by Mr Tosswill]
● 4.5.17 Submissions close 10 May : Proposed 17-storey, est. 62.5 metres-high Moray Place hotel/apartment building
● 7.4.17 Proposed hotel *height and design* —the very least of it #sellingoursouls
● 5.6.17 Application lodged for FIASCO Hotel by Tosswill #DunedinWrecks
● 18.12.16 DCC set to take away CBD car parks without Economic Impact research
● 15.10.16 Battle of the hotels : DCC meat in the sandwich (unedifying)
● 5.10.16 Dunedin bauble #votecatcher
● 4.10.16 The Demon Duck freak show of partial ‘Civic’ information! Before voting closes! #Dunedin
11.1.16 Un hôtel. Dunedin.
19.8.15 Hotels ? Business ? [DCC lost +++152 fleet vehicles] —Cull in charge of building chicken coops, why ?
1.4.14 HOTEL Town Hall… Another investment group, Daaave’s pals from the communist state?
25.3.14 Hotel We LIKE: Distinction Dunedin Hotel at former CPO

Posted by Elizabeth Kerr

This post is offered in the public interest.

Source: Application documents


Filed under Architecture, Business, Construction, DCC, Democracy, Design, District Plan, Dunedin, Economics, Education, Enterprise Dunedin, Finance, Geography, Heritage, Hot air, Hotel, Infrastructure, LTP/AP, Media, Name, New Zealand, OAG, Ombudsman, Otago Polytechnic, People, Perversion, Pet projects, Politics, Pools, Project management, Property, Proposed 2GP, Public interest, Resource management, Site, Structural engineering, Technology, Tourism, Town planning, Transportation, Travesty, University of Otago, Urban design, What stadium

15 responses to ““Fat” gawky Hotel and Apartment building : Questionable design even with 4 floors lopped off

  1. I wonder how many houses would lose their views and what radius of houses would lose the the sun and be in the shadow of this?
    I would like to see a graphic of this, but not from the developer.

    • Elizabeth

      Owain, it’s likely that submitters will come up with this information or via their experts – for all to see once we move into the hearings. Hopefully before (as required), if from their experts.

      It’s very clear that the developer has not produced Full information (assessment of effects) for the hearing commissioners to consider – this will be pointed out, strenuously.

  2. Hype O'Thermia

    Note that Aaron Hawkins, explaining the process, was careful to make it plain that what is commonly regarded as a height limit is only a suggestion, and anyone wanting to build “unacceptable” can apply for permission to do so.
    In view of this it looks like the extreme ugliness and height may have been a bargaining start, to be reduced with cries of pain and imminent financial ruin, till DCC allows what proposer wanted in the first place. Like haggling –
    It is a solid gold Rolex sir, $800, so cheap because I urgently need money.
    – $18 that’s all it’s worth
    $18, my children will starve! For you, $700.
    – OK $25 then
    —- and so on, final price $250 which is a bit more than the seller originally thought he’d get, while the buyer feels he’s done awfully well.
    NB this gold Rolex is actually gilded Bolex powered by a 2nd hand hearing aid battery.

    Whatever proceeds henceforth from planners, hotel magnate (!), DCC, their spokespeeps and Aaron the Explainer should be viewed with this cautionary fable in mind.

    • Elizabeth

      Guilty. I ignored young Aaron and refused to republish.
      I disagree with a few points made. Yesterday’s fish and chips paper. Self serving….

  3. Gurglars

    It was childe Harold, but now it’s childish Aaron- modern day English lesson.

  4. Elizabeth

    Moved from another thread. -Eds

    2017/07/15 at 10:28 am

    Glass is the medium of globalist incursion into our cities. Cold, empty, mirroring death. What do narcissists see when they look in a mirror. Hand in hand with brutalist concrete social theory, signifying nothing good. Reject it.

  5. Elizabeth

    Sun, 30 Jul 2017
    ODT: Planned hotel’s height set to be leading issue
    By Chris Morris
    Height looms as a key issue when plans for what would be Dunedin’s tallest central city building go under the microscope. A public resource consent hearing will begin on Monday to consider arguments for and against the five-star hotel and apartment tower proposed for Moray Pl. Tekapo businessman Anthony Tosswill’s plan has attracted 265 submissions, including 206 opposed. Cont/

    █ The hearing starts at 9.30am in the Municipal Chambers’ Edinburgh Room.

  6. Elizabeth

    At Facebook:

    Mr Page said Mr Tosswill had been “fastidious” in working with the council to refine the design.

    Tue, 1 Aug 2017
    ODT: Tower essential part of proposed hotel, hearing told
    By Chris Morris
    A tower would be an essential part of Dunedin’s first five-star hotel, an international hotel investment specialist says. […] The hotel’s success would be based on its occupancy, but also the average room rate it could charge, and the latter was driven by location, guest experience, quality and views, he said. That made a tower development “extremely important” to maximise views and drive up room rates, boosting the project’s viability. Cont/


    █ Mr Tosswill, speaking for the ‘unknown developer’…. is saying, through his experts, that the five star hotel is Not viable. That’s why he needs the floors of apartments to meet the multimillion-dollar debt burden of the hotel rooms. Tsk Tsk.


    At Facebook:

    Tue, 1 Aug 2017
    ODT: Hotel ‘new life’ for city
    By Chris Morris
    The man behind Dunedin’s latest five-star hotel proposal says the city needs his project. Tekapo businessman Anthony Tosswill yesterday told a resource consent hearing in Dunedin the city was crying out for five-star accommodation. […] “Developers have an obligation to do things for the city, and the city has an obligation to look after itself. I don’t believe Dunedin is looking after itself. […] His comments came as the panel of three independent commissioners — chairman Andrew Noone, Stephen Daysh and Gavin Lister — began hearing the first day of arguments for and against the 17-storey hotel and apartment development. Cont/


    At Facebook:

    Tue, 1 Aug 2017
    ODT: Rival’s challenge over hotel
    By Chris Morris
    A lawyer acting for a rival hotel has challenged the developers pushing for a five-star hotel in Dunedin as the second day of a resource consent hearing began today. The interjection from the public gallery came as panel chairman Andrew Noone told the hearing he wanted additional information detailing the economic benefits of the hotel development tabled as part of the hearing. Phil Page, the lawyer acting for Tekapo businessman Anthony Tosswill, the man behind the hotel, said a report by Infometrics had been prepared, and would be provided. [Lauren Semple, acting for Copthorne Hotels] questioned why the public had not had the chance to consider the report earlier. Cont/

  7. Hype O'Thermia

    It’s funny the way important matters get accidentally processed without input from other people, kind of secretly, almost… and even funnier when the applecart gets overturned by the presence of one inconvenient person who interjected, though I expect the rule is “you may sit there as long as you don’t make a noise”.

  8. Elizabeth

    There’s a reason I’m not creating a new post for the hotel hearings just yet perhaps to do with the applicant evidence being somewhat lacking.

    At Facebook:

    Wed, 2 Aug 2017
    ODT: Dominance acknowledged
    By Chris Morris
    The team behind Dunedin’s latest five-star hotel bid insist their plans are sound, despite conceding the 17-storey tower will dominate its surroundings. The comments came as project architect Thom Craig, of Christchurch, was questioned for more than an hour yesterday by independent commissioners hearing the second day of arguments for and against the proposed hotel. Mr Craig, answering questions from commissioner Gavin Lister, accepted the 60.3m-high tower in Moray Pl would be the tallest building in the central city. […] Mr Craig defended the design. The tower was an “elegant” solution that also offered the city “a stand-alone iconic structure”, while balancing competing concerns from the developer’s requirements to the area’s heritage values, he said. “It’s going to dominate, but it’s going to be a very important addition to the city.” […] Urban designer David Compton-Moen, also appearing for Mr Tosswill, said the hotel would add vibrancy and be a “considerable improvement” on the existing car park. However, he was grilled at length by Mr Lister after arguing the visual impact of the tower would be “indiscernible” in some areas, because the change in view would not be negative. Cont/

    Report timing challenged

    • Hype O'Thermia

      Worker accommodation in preparation for construction of the Vogon Hyperspace Bypass.
      Hang on a minute, I’ll see if I can find the poem about it…………

      AAAAgh ow ugh arrgh###ow no no no nononononoNO

  9. Elizabeth

    Imagine this view with Tosswill’s Asian-financed 17-storey Hotel.

    At Facebook:

    • pb

      We are blessed with a Victorian skyline, created by some of the best architects to walk the planet. Give that away and we curse our children’s visual inheritance. Let’s try to leave the open museum of Dunedin better than we received it. This ugly glass building would be sacrilege. “Postmodern culture is a loveless culture, which is afraid of beauty because it is disturbed by love.” — Roger Scruton, Beauty

  10. Elizabeth

    Now we’re into the good stuff.

    At Facebook:

    “It’s the first time I have said it in 10 years of hearings. Yes, these are fatal flaws.” –Andy Carr, transport engineer

    Thu, 3 Aug 2017
    ODT: Traffic problems at hotel
    By Chris Morris
    Plans for a five-star hotel tower in Dunedin are “fatally flawed” because of traffic problems on the site, a resource consent hearing has been told. However, the man behind the project, Tekapo businessman Anthony Tosswill, is vowing to hit back at the claims. The evidence against the project came from transport engineer Andy Carr, as two rival hotel chains lined up to oppose the project yesterday. Mr Carr, appearing as an expert witness for Millennium & Copthorne Hotels, which opposed the Moray Pl development, told the hearing the developers faced a series of insurmountable traffic problems. The hurdles stemmed from the site’s steep gradient, which meant buses and service vehicles negotiating a road and ramps at the site would get stuck or risk tipping over, he said. Asked by independent commissioner Stephen Daysh if the design problems were fatal flaws, Mr Carr said “in this case, yes”. Cont/


    Thu, 3 Aug 2017
    ODT: Hotel needed for tourism growth, chamber says
    By Chris Morris
    The battle for hearts and minds hit top gear yesterday as two views of Dunedin’s latest five-star hotel bid collided head-on. Tekapo businessman Anthony Tosswill’s plan to build the 17-storey tower in Moray Pl was greeted with a mixture of support and withering criticism on the third day of a resource consent hearing yesterday. Among the supporters was Otago Chamber of Commerce chief executive Dougal McGowan, who told the panel the five-star hotel was needed to future-proof the city’s tourist infrastructure and capitalise on expected growth.
    Others vehemently disagreed, including Peter Entwisle, who said the hotel would rob him and other residents near him of valued views of the Dunedin Town Hall, Municipal Chambers and St Paul’s Cathedral. […] Hilary Hunt also opposed the hotel because of its “ridiculous” design, which would be “totally out of character and style for this city”. […] Rose McRobie also criticised the hotel’s “horrible” mirrored glass finish, saying the result “doesn’t look like it belongs in that area”. Cont/

  11. Diane Yeldon

    Totally meaningless poll in ODT today.https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/informal-online-poll-favours-proposal
    IMO an example of a newspaper irresponsibly trying to manufacture news instead of sticking to reporting it. The ‘precision’ implied in the detailed numbers given in the article is completely spurious. “Informal’ here means that the poll is of no statistical validity whatsoever. Yet the write-up clearly makes the suggestion that there are ‘really’ far more people in favour of the proposal than those who actually submitted against it. Very mischievous use of numbers. Garbage in and garbage out.

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