WEATHER is not climate change; this is not the 100-year flood

Debate is raging, more comments and posts will surface on Greenie Mayor Cull’s witless screwy remarks at Otago Daily Times today.

Flood will cost ratepayers: Cull
Dunedin’s massive deluge will hit ratepayers in the form of delayed projects and funding reallocations, Dunedin Mayor Dave Cull concedes. […] “This kind of downpour is exactly the kind of climatic change that is predicted for the eastern South Island in the event of unfolding climate change.” […] “My feeling is central government and local government will need to co-operate right around the country and this is a bit of a pre-taste of some of the effects we can expect from climate change and sea level rises,” he said. “I think it would be a bit naïve to think this won’t happen again for another 100 years.”
http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/344767/flood-will-cost-ratepayers-cull

Received from Mick Field
Fri, 5 Jun 2015 at 4:20 p.m.

You might find this interesting in view of all the alarm and hype over the latest flooding. The Green Party is entirely wrong to blame the 3 June Dunedin flooding on climate change. Why? Because they show that the severe flooding two days ago is not new. Unusual, but not unique. A combination of rainfall data and photographs makes these comments as convincing as they were prompt.

22 Apr 1923 Dunedin 230mm in 24 hours
19-20 Mar 1929 Ross Creek (Dunedin outskirts) 279mm in 24 hours
[June 3 2015] was 175mm in 24 hours

The Otago Daily Times said it was double the previous record for a full day since records began in 2006. [But 2006 was only the start of recording rainfall in the city centre rather than Musselburgh, 3 km away.]

Flooding Anzac Ave, looking towards Harrow St - April 1923 [DCC Archives]

Local experts:

### ODT Online Fri, 5 Jun 2015
Don’t blame climate change for city deluge, weather experts say
By Eileen Goodwin
The flooding in Dunedin on Wednesday was not caused by climate change, a University of Otago climatologist says. “I think this is just a weather event,” Dr Nicolas Cullen, of the department of geography, said.
Read more

Comments received:

JimmyJones
Submitted on 2015/06/05 at 12:12 am

….Dunedin has experienced two bad floods, one in 1923 and another in 1929. More rain fell in the 24-hour periods than what we got on Tuesday/Wednesday. In the first 1923 flood, 229mm (9.02 inches) fell (measured at Musselburgh) and in 1929, 279mm (11.0 inches) fell (measured at Ross Creek reservoir). Figures are from City of Dunedin, a history by K C McDonald. Our recent big rain was only 175mm in 24 hours. Probably it wasn’t severe enough to be called a one in 100 year event.

Based on these three measurements, it looks like severe rainfall in Dunedin has become less frequent and less intense. And if Tuesday’s flood was caused by Global Warming, then what caused the other floods? If it was the weather that caused the earlier floods, then why would you think that it wasn’t the weather that caused the recent flood?

A very serious problem for crusaders that blame extreme weather on Global warming is that for at least the last 17 years there has been no warming trend of global temperatures. In fact there has been a slight cooling trend. The conclusion is that anything that has happened over the last 17 years can not have been caused by Global Warming (because there has been none). Don’t expect to get credible scientific advice from the Labour Party, Dave Cull or Jinty MacTavish.

Diane Yeldon
Submitted on 2015/06/05 at 10:51 am

Well, I just did a bit of checking and the Resource Management Act was amended in 2004, putting the responsibility fairly and squarely on to local councils to budget and plan for and take responsibility for reasonably anticipated effects of climate change. There’s a guide about what local councils have a legal responsibility to do on the website for the Ministry for the Environment (mfe.govt.nz – local government and climate change).
So Mayor Cull’s contention that central government will or should bail out Dunedin is as fatuous as a similar claim I read in a past Annual Plan document (2011, I think) that central government would (might?) bail the city out if it got into financial strife after committing to the stadium expenditure. (No central government would set such a precedent, rewarding financial irresponsibility on the part of a local body!)
Mayor Cull’s claims that maintenance is up to scratch and that 100-plus-year-old pipes held up as well as could be expected are ridiculous. He is merely asserting that the DCC is not at fault in any way. And trying to offload the responsibility for any climate change effects on to central government when councils have known since 2004 that it was a local government responsibility. Even if you think climate change is a myth, it seems prudent to protect a city against a 1 in a 100 years weather event. I wonder if the DCC can truthfully say they have been doing that.

Posted by Elizabeth Kerr

183 Comments

Filed under DCC, Democracy, Events, Geography, Hot air, Media, Name, New Zealand, People, Pics, Politics, Project management, Property, Site, Town planning, Urban design, What stadium

183 responses to “WEATHER is not climate change; this is not the 100-year flood

  1. Elizabeth

    Two graphs received from Cr Lee Vandervis. He says:

    Your JimmyJones makes some very good points based on his factual records of 100 years of Dunedin heavy rainfall events.
    Additional to Jimmy’s facts are the attached Wikipedia graph data which Cr MacTavish and other IPCC worshipers I have sent it to refuse to even comment on.
    Hopefully some of your readers will look at this data and share their conclusions.
    Me, I am getting a lot of firewood in and planting a lot of trees.

    Ice_Age_Temperature

    Geological time temperature

    • Cars

      So it was “Global Warming”
      Then it was “Climate change”

      because it was not warming and now if I read those charts correctly the new mantra will be

      anthromorphic

      “Global Cooling”

      or someone tell me is it Global amplitude? I’m confused!

    • More “managed retreat” north of the St Clair Esplanade this weekend : big seas have caused more erosion and the “sand track” above the beach has major damage. I would be surprised if it is ever opened again.
      Dunedin’s pioneers, and the later Councillors who built John Wilson Drive, will be turning in their graves.

    • Calvin Oaten

      The problem with this is the ‘dickheads’ have been converted to the UN / IPCC mantra, and being politicians they would find it impossible to admit they are wrong so will push on with their agendas regardless. Jinty and Dave are slaves to the ‘save the planet’ philosophy like pushing for divestment by the Waipori Fund from the ‘Fossil fuels industries’. Like the world is going to drop the cheapest most fllexible energy source, not to mention all the other goodies extracted from oil. The problem as well is that they can’t honestly suggest how the modern world would function in
      a energy depleted manner. Out the door would go ‘sustainability of food production, medicines, fertilsers, transport etc’. Ask them the answers and all you get is denial and “three thousand scientists” can’t be wrong. Well with modern oil production methods expanding reserves way into the next century I wish them luck with it staying in the ground. Bleeding marvelous.

  2. Elizabeth

    Otago Daily Times Published on Jun 4, 2015
    Raw aerial video of Dunedin Flooding
    Video courtesy One News.

    Received from Cr Lee Vandervis
    Fri, 5 Jun 2015 at 10:40 p.m.

    █ Message: The ongoing and vexed issue of mudtank maintenance failure causing blockages and compromise of stormwater systems is highlighted in the following email. This is just one of many emails I have sent over years to try and get staff to do their jobs in this area. Your readers may find the attachment particularly insightful.

    From: Lee Vandervis
    Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 08:04:46 +1200
    To: Sue Bidrose [DCC], Tony Avery [DCC]
    Conversation: Mudtanks FYI – “there has been insufficient effort put in to maintain the level of service requested” – their big sucker truck was in Chch for the whole year!
    Subject: FW: Mudtanks FYI – “there has been insufficient effort put in to maintain the level of service requested” – their big sucker truck was in Chch for the whole year!

    Hi Sue and Tony,

    I withheld publishing a damning opinion piece last year on the failure of DCC staff to ensure that a quarter million dollar mud-tank cleaning contract was actually carried out.
    The email below highlighted that Fulton Hogan were paid for a year-long contract that they simply did not carry out.
    Assurances from FH and Tony Avery that the failure to do the job would be rapidly fixed have been shown by yesterday’s flash rainfall to be false.
    Half the mudtanks in my usual dog walk area are completely blocked and inoperative and it seems a cynical cleaning of just some of the bottom-of-catchment tanks has been undertaken.
    Evidence of the widespread failure of mudtanks to drain is seen with gravel and flotsam all over the road in many areas that I have driven around this morning.
    Sodden shops wont have been helped by un-cleaned mudtanks.

    I do not enjoy showing up staff dereliction, but as a ratepayer’s representative, what options have you left me?

    Cr. Vandervis.

    —— Forwarded Message
    From: Lee Vandervis
    Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 07:50:26 +1300
    To: Mayor Cull
    Conversation: Mudtanks FYI – “there has been insufficient effort put in to maintain the level of service requested” – their big sucker truck was in Chch for the whole year!
    Subject: FW: Mudtanks FYI – “there has been insufficient effort put in to maintain the level of service requested” – their big sucker truck was in Chch for the whole year!

    —— Forwarded Message
    From: Lee Vandervis
    Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 18:32:47 +1300
    To: Andrew Noone [Cr]
    Conversation: Mudtanks
    Subject: FW: Mudtanks

    G’day Andrew,

    The attached edited info shows that only 19 from $281,000 has been withheld. No wonder they are unconcerned. They are cleaning up at the bank without doing the mud tanks.

    All the more reason for us to get a Tenders Board with Councillors on it asap.

    Cheers,
    Lee

    —— Forwarded Message
    From: Graeme Hamilton
    Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 12:01:37 +1200
    To: Lee Vandervis
    Cc: Tony Avery, Andrew Noone, Peter Standring [DCC]
    Subject: Mudtanks

    Hi Lee,
    I took note of your concerns across this area of the DCC maintenance contract as expressed at our recent ISCOM Briefing, and have had an extensive response from Peter Standring who carry’s responsibility for administration of this contract with FH. If there is anything that is unclear, or you wish to have further discussion on the subject we would be pleased to assist.
    Regards
    Graeme Hamilton
    Manager, Transportation Operations
    Dunedin City Council

    █ Attachment: MUDTANKS 29-06-11 (DOC, 35 KB)

    • Elizabeth

      It appears that Fulton Hogan, the company responsible for clearing mudtanks (!!) for DCC, is not happy with what has been released regarding their contract.

      They should have thought about that before putting people’s homes at risk -skimming the money and not meeting the required maintenance standards is inexcusable.

      Further, it’s totally unacceptable for the DCC chief executive and the executive leadership team to not be on top of contracts for delivery of vital infrastructure services.

      Tony Avery as the former general manager of infrastructure and networks clearly failed to meet his basic responsibilities.

      The sighs and sympathies expressed at his resignation over Citifleet have always been seen as vaguely stupidly given wider knowledge of Mr Avery.

      I also have to say – given Cr Vandervis’s alertness to poorly supervised contracts, his official requests for information, and the staff replies – the general manager of corporate services and the chief executive appear to have failed the council by not ensuring there was proper follow-up to measure and check Fulton Hogan’s performance.

      More to come.

  3. Cars

    So who does a person owning a ruined house in St Clair or St Kilda sue?

    Sue??
    Fulton Hogan?
    Peter Standring?

    The DCC?

    What has global warming to do with incompetence?

  4. Elizabeth

    ‘Cull rejects state of emergency claim’, terse statements from Drivel Dave make your Saturday!

    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/344915/cull-rejects-state-emergency-claim

  5. Calvin Oaten

    I go away for a couple of weeks and you have a moderate snow fall, an earthquake and a severe flood. It’s just not fair. But I note JimmyJones and Mick’s comments re the 1923 and 1929 events, I personally remember a major event in 1946, not to mention the 1939 snowfall. All weather events, nothing to do with ‘Climate Change’ nor Co2, despite Daaave’s and Jinty’s concern of cataclysmic happenings for Dunedin if we don’t heed that ‘crap’. I have a very good friend who lives in Surrey St, part of the recent drama. Around five years ago he had problems with a neighbour’s upwelling of sewage from her gulley trap. (A knee-trembling event I can tell you). Turns out that there was an overload with the wet spell at that time. The explanation was that recently the Green Island Treatment Station was at full capacity due to developments at Abbotsford, Waldronville and Fairfield. It was either spend on an enlargement or offload somehow. The answer was to divert a pipe to Green Island from Kaikorai Valley through the old Caversham Rail Tunnel into the Caversham Flat catchment then to Tahuna. Job done, except that we now see the Flat is at capacity as well. Who would have thought? Just look at the number of St Kilda, St Clair, Caversham and Tahuna single residential sites which over the last forty years have been demolished and replaced with one, two and three Ownership Flats/Town Houses. Instead of one connection per site two, three or more now. Don’t the people in that building take notice of these things and inform the Mayor and council ? Or is it that they are just too concerned with replacing existing landscape as a make work exercise? Possibly, like the St Clair Sea Wall, it is all just too boring. Face it, pipes under the ground are not very sexy.

  6. Elizabeth

    Comment at ODT Online:

    The money was there
    Submitted by topsy on Fri, 05/06/2015 – 10:34pm.

    10 years ago, Council received an estimate of 70 million dollars to completely replace the entire drainage network within the urban boundary. It was deemed to be unnecessary and too expensive. The money simply wasn’t there. Jump forward a couple of years and nearly 300 million was suddenly available to build a new rugby stadium. Less than 200 million would have bought us a completely new, future-proofed, underground drainage system AND free solar hot water heating for every dwelling in Dunedin.

  7. Elizabeth

    [Mayor Cull] confirmed he had a discussion with deputy Prime Minister Bill English today about the issue, and special housing areas used to fast-track housing development could be considered for South Dunedin.

    ### stuff.co.nz Last updated 09:39, June 7 2015
    Dunedin mayor rejects ‘ignorant’ flooding response criticism
    By Hamish McNeilly
    Dunedin Mayor Dave Cull has hit back at criticism over his council’s flooding response, and labelled comments from Dunedin South MP [Labour MP Clare Curran] as “ignorant”. […] He rejected any suggestion the council’s infrastructure had not been serviced adequately before the floods, with records showing they had been well maintained. They are wrong. We are confident that the maintenance on the system in South Dunedin was up to date.” Council had been looking at the “vulnerabilities” of low lying places in the South Dunedin area, he said.
    Read more

    █ Read 33 comments on the article.

    ****

    Comment at ODT Online:

    Vote of no confidence
    Submitted by Mtbt on Sat, 06/06/2015 – 9:45pm.

    “I am confident that the maintenance was up to date on the system in South Dunedin”

    Really confident Mayor? Unfortunately for rate payers of the city you are wrong, unfortunately for business owners you are wrong, unfortunately for insurers you are wrong! Just because maintenance records and some scrambling maintenance managers tell you so doesn’t make it fact.

    Reality is the drains are very old, they are partially full of gravel and composting material from the many sumps that are never emptied! Be the proactive mayor you promised and take some action while you are still in office!

  8. Elizabeth

    Drains blocked, residents claim
    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/345046/drains-blocked-residents-claim

    More bad press handling by Mayor Cull and council staff. Until the flood response is fully debriefed it might be wise to not exclude council and contractor fault as contributor. The mayor is inconsiderately dismissive if not defensive when stressed or under fire. This is not good leadership, in my opinion. Where’s that little help gene, huh?

    • Hype O'Thermia

      How come he’s so certain it’s climate change (highly improbable) and not f*cked drains?
      Has our Mayor been brainwashed by a fundamentalist sect? Perhaps he should have a word with Nicole Kidman, and the people who fled from Gloriavale.

    • Peter

      It would be better to wait for a report that sorted out the ‘perceptions’ of residents concerning drain maintenance, listen to what the former DCC drainage engineer had to say and talk to the contractors, Fulton Hogan to check whether their claims of a strict schedule for work is correct. You would expect them to cover their arse if they have been pocketing ratepayer money without doing the job properly.
      At the same time Peter Standring’s comment about quickish drainage once the rain stopped makes some sense in that the system may not be entirely defunct.
      I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle. This was an extraordinarily unusual weather occurence after all.

      • @Peter
        June 8, 2015 at 4:22 pm

        You say ‘At the same time Peter Standring’s comment about quickish drainage once the rain stopped makes some sense in that the system may not be entirely defunct.’
        Of course the system is not defunct.

        Go back to what Trevor Williams observes:
        ‘The fact flooding was so bad, and took up to 24 hours to drain away in some areas, showed the area’s mud tanks were blocked, he believed.’

        And then your own conclusion re arse covering.

        And the arse covering won’t just stop with the contractors.
        So don’t expect much to come from any ‘inquiry’ or report. It will be cover arse all the way down.

        It all comes back to the council sticking to its knitting. It doesn’t – it pisses around with totally unnecessary stuff like ‘climate change’, divesting its oil shares, and cycleways, when it should be making sure that the stuff that it IS responsible for (like drainage) is done properly. That is what it is paid to do by we ratepayers.

  9. E. Palmer

    Blocked Drains, Blocked Eyes and Ears!

    It seems the Council staff have an attitiude of ignoring people with genuine concerns. We citizens are fobbed off as being either intolerant, misguided or confused and therefore to be ignored.

    Now there’s an overwhelming number of people attesting to the fact that the flooding in South Dunedin was possibly worsened by not just a few clogged mudtanks, but a more substantial lack of any maintenance over many years. These people have lived long in these areas and know when they’re being lied to Mr Cull and they’re getting mighty sick of not being listened to.

    Even in the face of hard evidence, our Mayor defends yet another questionable service contract, which surely must come under closer scrutiny after this! It’s not only the city’s drains that need a good overhaul. DCC you can’t stick your heads in the sand anymore – it’s all turned to sludge.

    • Peter

      You would think if a council contracts out a service to a private provider they would have some form of checking whether they are doing their job properly???
      Those people who provide anecdotal accounts of neglect should not be put down as being wrong or ignorant. Many have lived in these areas for decades and have long memories. If the council talks the talk about ‘community input/consultation’ they should mean it…and listen.

  10. Calvin Oaten

    Mayor Cull klings to the ‘mantra’ that this problem is all to do with Climate Change and rising sea levels. I have come across a very interesting bit of work by two Otago University people, Hannah and Bell, published as recently as 2012 . It is a paper on sea levels around New Zealand specifically. I wonder why they haven’t spoken out publicly? I guess it’s because they have been suppressed by the institution which is committed to the dogma of Climate Change.3.

    New Zealand

    Now let’s go to the other side of the globe – New Zealand, where only a few tide gauges go back to 1900. John Hannah and Robert Bell of the University of Otago and the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research respectively published a paper in January 2012 in the Journal of Geophysical Research. The new curves show that sea level rise has been steady since 1940 (Figure 4). The development in New Zealand is similar to the global situation. The long-term New Zealand trend is 1.7 mm sea level rise per year.

    Figure 4: Sea level development from four New Zealand coastal tide gauges. Here there’s been no acceleration in sea level rise over the last 70 years. Figure from Hannah & Bell (2012).

    Particularly interesting in the Hannah and Bell study is that New Zealand sea level rise is characterized by decadal cycles. Sea level rose and dropped in sync with the Pacific ocean cycles (Southern Oscillation Index, SOI and others), see Figure 5. Also see report from the NIPCC.

    Figure 5: Shown are four New Zealand sea level tidal gauge series (thin curves), along with the Southern Oscillation Index (bold black curve). Source of figure: Hannah & Bell (2012).

    • JimmyJones

      Calvin: An interesting thing about John Hannah is that he seems to be a believer in the failed Global Warming theory – and yet he has worked with great skill to make New Zealand’s sea-level data accurate. The data that he has produced shows that the IPCC’s predictions for NZ sea-level rise are wrong. That means that the ORC and the DCC forecasts are also wrong.

      The DCC has decided that for the 2GP their prediction is a sea-level increase of 1200mm per 100 years. This is even more exaggerated than the IPCC because the DCC decided to ask a local Global Warming activist, Professor Blair Fitzharris to do a report. His figure is about 10 times larger than the actual trend measured by John Hannah (130mm per 100 years). Dunedin is lucky to be next to Port Chalmers where there is an accurate tide gauge (with GPS correction) which is one of 5 NZ tide gauges which feed data to the Permanent Service for Mean Sea Level – an organisation that maintains the global network of tide gauges and produces the most accurate global sea-level data. Here are some facts:

      — the global rate of sea-level rise is 1.7mm per year
      — Dunedin’s rate of sea-level rise is 1.3mm per year (130mm per 100 years) from Hannah & Bell (2012)
      –Dunedin’s land is rising out of the sea and so has slower sea-level rise than other NZ cities and the global rate of sea-level rise
      — in the Hannah & Bell (2012) paper that you refer to, they report that there has been no discernible human influence on sea-level (as you observe)
      — because there has been no human influence on sea-level, we can expect the forecast 100 year trend for Dunedin to be the same as the trend for the last 100 years, ie 130mm per 100 years
      — the DCC is wrong to choose a Global Warming activist to produce an important report on Global Warming – this is dishonest because the bias is not revealed.

      • @JimmyJones
        June 8, 2015 at 9:17 pm

        You say: ‘An interesting thing about John Hannah is that he seems to be a believer in the failed Global Warming theory’
        But then you observe – ‘Dunedin’s rate of sea-level rise is 1.3mm per year (130mm per 100 years) from Hannah & Bell (2012)
        – Dunedin’s land is rising out of the sea and so has slower sea-level rise than other NZ cities and the global rate of sea-level rise’.

        All I can say is trust the data.
        Why John Hannah seems to be a believer in the failed Global warming theory is anybody’s guess – my answer to that is ‘follow the money’.
        But as sure as hell we don’t need to spend any money on failed and unproved projections of sea level rise and other fairy tales that certain councillors believe in.

        • JimmyJones

          The DCC’s fake sea-level rise prediction of 1200mm per 100 years, compared to the more realistic prediction of 130mm per 100 years is going to cause unnecessary costs for many because it is a basic assumption for the DCC schemers and planners and will be part of the 2GP.
          I don’t know why John Hannah is a Global Warming believer, but he trusts the data and doesn’t seem to let his ideology affect his job as a scientist.

        • Cars

          Dunedin is rising up!

          It’s the second coming!

        • Calvin Oaten

          Jimmy, the fact that John Hannah is not prepared to stand by his work publicly, suggests a complicity with the establishment. How else could he publish his findings if he didn’t believe they were correct? Witness the report to DCC of Prof Blair Fitzharris. It would not be prudent to swim against that tide career wise so you just bury your head. Pity, as he could if he wished, sow a seed or two of doubt which might in the fullness of time save the ratepayers $millions of needless expense.

        • JimmyJones

          Calvin: In the area of current and historic sea-level rise, John Hannah absolutely does publicly stand by his work because he publishes papers and gave a talk in Dunedin in 2013. He understands that there is a severe conflict between sea-level changes measured with tide gauges and and changes measured with satellites. The difference is that satellites don’t actually measure sea-level (sea-level being the difference between the height of the land and the height of the sea). Also the satellite data is intentionally corrupted with various invalid adjustments. The IPCC uses satellite data.
          John Hannah knows that his sea-level data is correct, but he also believes that global temperatures will rise according to the IPCC predictions. Predicting global temperatures is beyond the limits of his expertise and he should stick to what he knows.

    • Diane Yeldon

      I am sure I heard a report on Channel 39 News tonight saying that the sad event of a dog being walked on St Clair beach and being swept out to sea had been attributed to climate change. This reminds me of the people who complained that daylight saving faded their curtains.

      • Elizabeth

        Diane, we’re at a new low of newscasting showing the base lack of human intelligence.

        WEATHER AND WAVE ACTION ARE NOT CLIMATE CHANGE.

        • Elizabeth

          Jinty may have already fled for the mountains. But did she take Daaave too.

        • Hype O'Thermia

          It’s not climate change. It’s God expressing His Mighty anger at people travelling on 2 wheels which is against nature which He in His wisdom hath ordained: two feet or four wheels.
          Building all those cycle lanes was just asking for trouble, and now a poor little innocent dog has had to suffer for Daaave and Jinty’s obsession.

        • Calvin Oaten

          Elizabeth, Professor Mike Hilton says “In the future the climate change element to these events is going to get bigger and bigger”. So there! Right from the mouth of an academic who knows these things. Sheesh! when will this ‘global warming, morphed to climate change’ mania run its course? Absolutely no supporting empirical evidence, yet they vote unanimously on anecdotal ‘computer generated models’ predicting way, way into the future when we all know that with the most up to date weather predicting talents at best can’t accurately get much further out
          than six or seven days. Prof Hilton admits the latest stormy sea conditions coincided from a spring tidal event at the same time as a very low pressure system accompanied by gale force winds fetched up from the deep south. An unusual but not unheard of situation.
          As Jinty would say, ‘three thousand scientists can’t be wrong.’

        • Hype O'Thermia

          “Prof Hilton admits the latest stormy sea conditions coincided from a spring tidal event at the same time as a very low pressure system accompanied by gale force winds fetched up from the deep south.” (Calvin Oaten)

          The Prof is [choose]
          *confused
          *satirical
          *a bit of a dag

  11. Peter

    While the debate rages about the reality of climate change or not we experience, at a more basic level, increased alarm over the council’s lack of overview of the city’s drainage infrastructure. They seem to have washed their hands of any responsibility to oversee the work of the contractors and determine whether they are doing their job properly. Or is it worse than that? Have they, with a nod and a wink, told them to cut back on their contracted work so the council has more money to spend on fripperies?
    Moreover, those in the community, who do voice concerns, based on their thorough research and/or experience, are put down by the council as fools, naysayers or weirdos. They are treated badly by being insulted. We saw it with the stadium and now who is it who is having the last laugh?
    The Cull/Bidrose Council seems to be lurching from one crisis to another and not dealing with basic issues like maintaining infrastructure or making people, who have for years used the council as a gravy train, accountable. I get the strong impression the council, as a whole, are suffering some kind of ‘under seige bubble’ and react to crises by giving bland reassurances, to give themselves time, instead of taking strong measures to deal with serious issues.
    What has been going on at the SDHB, with the likelihood of the government appointing a commissioner, seems to be mirrored at the DCC. Poor Dunedin has been badly governed for years now by both organisations. We need a break. I can’t wait for a competent, well regarded Commissioner to run the DCC. I hope the government gets that bit right in terms of a quality commissioner. They have thankfully now seen the need to intervene. I am pleased Labour’s Annette King has supported the move, even telling the government to get a move on and do it.

    • @JimmyJones
      June 9, 2015 at 12:10 am
      You say “The DCC’s fake sea-level rise prediction of 1200mm per 100 years, compared to the more realistic prediction of 130mm per 100 years is going to cause:’

      Precisely – and this is reflected world wide according to by Nils-Axel Mörner who had made extensive observations around the globe.

      He says ‘For the last 40-50 years strong observational facts indicate virtually stable sea level conditions. The Earth’s rate of rotation records a mean acceleration from 1972 to 2012, contradicting all claims of a rapid global sea level rise, and instead suggests stable, to slightly falling, sea levels. Best estimates for future sea level changes up to the year 2100 are in the range of +5 cm ±15 cm.’

    • JimmyJones

      Good summary, Peter. Even more important than the mudtank maintenance is the current overall capability of the city’s stormwater system to cope with severe rain events. The mudtank maintenance is an important part of this, but there are other factors like undersized pipes, silted pipes, collapsed pipes, pumping station capabilities etc. No-one from the DCC has told us what the capability is – whether it can cope with a one in 20 year rain severity or whatever. We know, last week, it failed badly to cope with what might have been a one in 30 year event. I suspect our councilors don’t want us to know in case they are forced to sacrifice their fripperies to pay for the accelerated upgrade of the stormwater system.

      It looks to me that the water/stormwater/sewerage system has had its maintenance and renewals program sacrificed because it is not easily noticed when funding has been diverted away to less important projects. Except that last week we did notice a very serious deficiency of the stormwater system when flooding resulted.

      There is no excuse for being $60 million behind with the 3-waters renewals and planing to be even further behind over the course of the LTP. For the Global Warming faithful, like, MacTavish, Cull, Wilson, Bidrose etc, the stormwater upgrades should be a matter of even greater importance, given what they believe about sea-level rise and extreem weather – but apparently more flooded houses are not as important as bicycle lanes, extra libraries, unnecessary swimming pools, stadium subsidies and more staff.

      • Peter

        Jimmy. It would be reassuring if the council outlines where in the Draft Annual Plan they intend to cut services and/or projects to pay for the rain storm damage. They can hardly put the whole cost on the tab. This would help reassure people that they are now thinking, and planning, clearly for the future. Given the recent event, this is the ideal time for them to explain why they need to make changes to the DAP.
        (Saying that, I just caught the end of a news item on Channel 39 tonight about some historic wharf the council is going to restore. They apparently only recently found out they owned it. It looks like the wharf is in Aramoana. Now… the idea of restoring the wharf is ‘nice’, but why now and why not let the local community fundraise as a community project? Sometimes we take away community from people by always doing stuff for them.
        So the spending goes on…despite what has just happened and just after the DAP has been completed.
        Commissioner, Paula Bennett?

        • Elizabeth

          ### dunedintv.co.nz June 9, 2015 – 6:43pm
          Historic wharf to be restored
          A forgotten civic asset is due to be restored, thanks to the gumption of a local community group. The Aramoana League has support from the city council to revive a recreational wharf. And that’ll ensure a historic link is maintained. 
          Video

      • Diane Yeldon

        The capacity is for a 1 in 10 year rain event. I think I got this from the Annual Plan documents. And hydrologist Dave Stewart’s comments in the ODT article confirmed this. Incidentally, Stewart scoffed at the idea that recent flood was a 1 in 100 year event and said more like 30 -50. So did that geologist from the uni.

        Dave Stewart said more than 1 in 10 years capacity would require significant rates increases and cost a great deal. However, I remember something about the DCC and ORC disagreeing about what was a prudent capacity and that the ORC wanted greater. It would be very interesting to know what capacity other councils have.
        But this measure of capacity may be as misleading as it is enlightening. The same heavy rain event would not have the same effect in all parts of the city. And a heavy rain event immediately after a severe drought would not be as damaging regarding water as a deluge after the ground was already well-soaked. (It would be more polluting of waterways and the sea though.)

        It may be more useful for residents to know more specific information about their own local area. Whether individuals are going to suffer from flooding depends on all sorts of other factors, like the size and pressure capacity of pipes in their area (pressure clearly relates to age and materials used, clay being weakest), and (of course) whether the system is actually functioning – with cleared mudtanks and pipes not broken or too small. You need only one weak link.

        It also depends on how freely natural waterways in their area flow. For example, the Kaikorai Stream backs up on to the Nairn St Park because IMO the culvert going under Stuart St/Taieri Rd is too small. One day, I expect it to collapse with the pressure it must intermittently suffer. If there’s heavy traffic it on when it does, well, you read it here first!

        Slowing down the rate of flow of waterways like the Kaikorai Stream while giving them wider emergency storage capacity would help protect lower lying areas. You can’t stop the water running downhill but you can stop it running downhill so fast that it overwhelms systems lower down.
        I’m used to onsite waste water and effluent disposal. No reason why small package plants couldn’t be used here in places too. It doesn’t all need to be piped to the sea. Not always the cheapest option.

        • JimmyJones

          Diane: I have looked in the LTP consultation document and haven’t yet found anything about a 1 in 10 year rain event capability.

          Also, I don’t believe that hydrologist Dave Stewart said anything about the stormwater system or the costs of upgrading. I know that the sentence comes after a quote from Dave Stewart but he would not be an expert on stormwater upgrade costs. I asked the reporter where this came from, but she didn’t reply. I don’t think it was from Dave Stewart.

          The sentence is: Upgrading it to cope with more than a one-in-10-year event would require a massive investment and rates hike. It might be deceptively written, because it leads you to think that the current capability is for a “a one-in-10-year event”, but doesn’t actually say so.

          Yes, it would be good to know the capability of other NZ cities. There is a question – is a one-in-10-year event capability good enough and how much wasteful spending are our councillors prepared to sacrifice to get to a one-in-20 year (for example) capability. None, I would guess.

        • Diane Yeldon

          Jimmy Jones: Here’s where I got that 1 in 10 years figure from, plus relevant text::

          http://www.dunedin.govt.nz/your-council/draft-long-term-plan-2015-2016/infrastructure-strategy/three-waters-specific-challenges

          Climate change threatens to increase both the intensity and frequency of rainfall events. The Council’s stormwater system is designed to accommodate 1 in 10 year rainfall intensity events. As climate change takes effect it is clear that an event considered to be a 1 in 10 year rainfall event today will increase in frequency in the future. The Council will review rainfall return periods on a five yearly basis to ensure design capacities are kept up to date with any evident climate change trends and take into account predicted climate change trends associated with an assets anticipated useful life. (ends)

          I agree – it’s like finding a needle in a haystack.

        • JimmyJones

          Thanks Diane. When the DCC says that “The Council’s stormwater system is designed to accommodate 1 in 10 year rainfall intensity events”, I think that it is being misleading, because the design of the system is not necessarily the current capability of the system. Also, different areas will have different capabilities. We know that Mosgiel does not meet the 1 in 10 year specification (as I discussed below) and I suspect that South Dunedin is sub-standard also.

        • Hype O'Thermia

          Diane Yeldon –
          A heavy rain event immediately after a severe drought can also lead to fast runoff depending on the surface. Ultra-dry ground won’t absorb. Worst when there is not much vegetation. I’ve seen lawns ponding when watered because it takes a while for absorption to begin. If that was a slope there would be fast runoff.
          Slips our way have been in the 2nd type of conditions you mention, where rain has been falling for several days on and off, ground is saturated down to greasyback rock, or into soil networked by channels left by removing trees, or where the stabilising toe of a slope has been cut back without adequate stabilising.

        • Diane Yeldon

          WATER SENSITIVE DESIGN booklet from Auckland Council. Water sensitive design is an essential part of good land management – the two things go together completely integrated. And also enhances the built environment by making natural plantings an integral part of it.

          This booklet is really good. Just looking at the pictures and diagrams is really informative. A lot of this work could be done by neighbourhood groups, in a way similar to the way the replanting of the Kaikorai Common was done by a citizens’ group. Even individual small landowners can make a big difference by just having a water retention feature (wetland garden – no water hazard for kids.)
          http://content.aucklanddesignmanual.co.nz/design-thinking/wsd/Documents/20032015%20GD04%20WSD%20Guideline%20Document.pdf

        • Diane Yeldon

          WATER SENSITIVE DESIGN GUIDE. Page 16 pretty much says it all:
          A5.0 Conventional vs. WSD approaches to stormwater management
          ‘Hard’ stormwater infrastructure, such as pipes and concrete channels, is a means to convey stormwater runoff in order to manage flood risk to property and people. However these structural elements are often a source of adverse effects on the environment, by rapidly concentrating stormwater flows and their contaminants to the receiving environment. Their effectiveness is also limited by system capacity (e.g. pipe diameter).
          WSD approaches focus on reducing or eliminating stormwater runoff generation through source control, and utilising natural systems and processes to manage stormwater quantity and quality effects. WSD
          is inherently a context-specific approach which utilises a combination of conventional stormwater infrastructure, WSD devices (e.g. swales and raingardens), and enhanced natural systems to achieve the best practical stormwater management outcome. This includes the potential to utilise stormwater as a supply for potable water or irrigation.(ends)

          The two accompanying map/diagrams explain these principles really well, contrasting WSD with the conventional pipes, pipes, and more pipes method (of which there is far too much of in Dunedin.)

        • Anonymous

          I wonder what the effect on the rate of water flow from the hill suburbs down would be, if significant numbers of rain tanks were installed.

          I also wonder how easy it is to get a resource consent for an urban water tank in this jurisdiction?

        • Cars: I looked into getting a rain water tank to use for watering the garden. In the end, I couldn’t afford it. But I found no obstacles with council regulations. Certainly collecting (retaining) some of roof water is a good idea. I think in many Australian cities, roof water collection is mandatory for new dwellings, including those on reticulated supply.

    • Diane Yeldon

      Peter, I agree that most of the decisions needing to be made at local government level are not really affected whether climate change is ‘true’ or not. (Although I think it most likely is and is also likely, at least partly, caused by human actions.) But it’s not necessary to appeal to the concept of climate change re the question of car use. Cars do cause pollution, congestion and reduce amenity value of cities. But I wonder why, in Dunedin, improved public transport should be given a low priority compared to cycleways, when it seems far, far more residents would benefit from the first. And with regards to the future of South Dunedin, I think the old saying, “Nothing about us without us.” applies. I’d like to see the current residents of South Dunedin given real choices about what kind of homes they want to live in and where those might be located. Instead of everyone else seeming to want to decide their fate for them. But, in the final analysis, it all comes down to money, doesn’t it? I doubt that anyone wants to live somewhere cold and damp and at risk of repeated flooding if they can afford not to. The flooding is a present reality, not a theory.

      • JimmyJones

        Diane: you say that Cars do cause pollution, congestion and reduce amenity value of cities. I disagree. Cars in our country do not produce enough pollution to cause any noticeable problems. Motor vehicles have become cleaner in recent decades and cars that produce visible smoke are uncommon. From my point of view cars, roads and footpaths add to the amenity value of a city. A free-flowing road and a footpath full of pedestrians are beautiful things. Cars don’t cause congestion. Congestion is caused by city councils who choose to not provide for the required capacity of the roading systems. Sometimes this is because they don’t allow for growth and for some councils they actively set out to create congestion by reducing traffic lanes and using the space for the exclusive use of buses and bicycles (for example).
        All cities that are members of ICLEI are likely to be actively trying to create congestion and remove affordable car parking. In NZ the paid-up members of ICLEI are Auckland, Dunedin (DCC), Kapiti Coast and Palmerston North. ICLEI is an association of city/regional councils that want to enforce the political doctrine of Agenda 21 – also called “Sustainable Development” and often misleadingly described as “sustainability” so that people remain unaware of its political nature. ICLEI annual membership fees are funded by DCC ratepayers, even though it is a political organisation. Jinty MacTavish represented the DCC at an ICLEI conference in Korea in May this year. Apparently she was really excited to speak about the work we’ve been doing on socially responsible investment here in Dunedin – and to explore fossil fuel divestment as a climate leadership strategy. A YouTube search will show that ICLEI is generally hated, world-wide. Mayor Dave doesn’t say much about ICLEI and the money we pay them.

        • Hype O'Thermia

          Hah! Thanks for info. Hadn’t heard of ICLEI but now I have, plus local relevance. Why ain’t I surprised?

        • @JimmyJones
          June 16, 2015 at 7:57 pm
          You say: “All cities that are members of ICLEI are likely to be actively trying to create congestion and remove affordable car parking. In NZ the paid-up members of ICLEI are Auckland, Dunedin (DCC), Kapiti Coast and Palmerston North. ICLEI is an association of city/regional councils that want to enforce the political doctrine of Agenda 21 – also called “Sustainable Development” and often misleadingly described as “sustainability” so that people remain unaware of its political nature”.”

          I am concerned about what you say here and believe that we should all be so concerned. I also draw attention to the connections you make especially in regard to Agenda 21 and Maurice Strong.
          As well I also remind readers of this blog of Jinty MacTavish’s contemptuous dismissal of Calvin Oaten’s reference to Agenda 21 in a recent comment here. It is plain that she is complicit in all this. It is as well to expose it for what it is.

          The creator of Agenda 21 was none other than Maurice Strong. No surprises then when he turns up here with this statement below.

          “We must all learn that traditional values are key to sustainable development,” said Maurice Strong. ICLEI Advisory Committee Member Maurice Strong spoke at the Earth Charter+5 celebration in Amsterdam, Netherlands, 5-9 November 2005 and added that traditional wisdom was even more precious in a globalizing world. “In Stockholm in 1972, we lost our innocence. It was the UN Conference on Environment where the global movement began. In Rio in 1992, Agenda 21 was agreed upon. We now know what we are having to do what the solutions are. But we are not doing it. We do not make the transition to a sustainable way of life.”
          He emphasised the need to raise young, committed leaders to bring about the motivational revolution that we need to arrive at the implementation of sustainable development.
          Note also the following about Maurice Strong and note who on our council is enamoured by this man’s example. I will leave you to draw your own conclusions.

          In 2005, during investigations into the UN’s Oil-for-Food Programme, evidence procured by federal investigators and the UN-authorised inquiry of Paul Volcker showed that in 1997, while working for Annan, Strong had endorsed a cheque for $988,885, made out to “Mr M. Strong”, issued by a Jordanian bank. It was reported that the cheque was hand-delivered to Mr Strong by a South Korean businessman, Tongsun Park, who in 2006 was convicted in New York federal court of conspiring to bribe UN officials to rig Oil-for-Food in favour of Saddam Hussein. Mr Strong was never accused of any wrongdoing. During the inquiry, Strong stepped down from his UN post, stating that he would “sideline himself until the cloud was removed”.

          Shortly after this, Strong moved to an apartment he owned in Beijing. He said that his departure from the UN was motivated not by the Oil-for-Food investigations, but by his sense at the time, as Mr Annan’s special adviser on North Korea, that the UN had reached an impasse. “It just happened to coincide with the publicity surrounding my so-called nefarious activities,” he insists. “I had no involvement. We have seen these weasel words many times – think World Cup?
          Then investigation of DCC car fraud? Think.

        • JimmyJones

          Douglas Field: thanks for the info on Maurice Strong – he is a truly dangerous man. Here are some of his quotes:

          >> Current lifestyles and consumption patterns of the affluent middle class – involving high meat intake, the use of fossil fuels, electrical appliances, home and work-place air-conditioning, and suburban housing – are not sustainable.

          >> If we don’t change, our species will not survive… Frankly, we may get to the point where the only way of saving the world will be for industrial civilization to collapse.

          >> What if a small group of world leaders were to conclude that the principal risk to the Earth comes from the actions of the rich countries? And if the world is to survive, those rich countries would have to sign an agreement reducing their impact on the environment. Will they do it? The group’s conclusion is ‘no’. The rich countries won’t do it. They won’t change. So, in order to save the planet, the group decides: Isn’t the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse? Isn’t it our responsibility to bring that about?

          >> It is simply not feasible for sovereignty to be exercised unilaterally by individual nation-states, however powerful. It is a principle which will yield only slowly and reluctantly to the imperatives of global environmental cooperation.

          >> Our concepts of ballot-box democracy may need to be modified to produce strong governments capable of making difficult decisions.

          He is a total nut-case, but one of the most influential nut-cases of all time.

        • Diane Yeldon

          JimmyJones: I did research this and thought about the implications for local government. I think the big questions raised about the future of the world are not ones I want to get into here – what interests me is a discussion about local government here and now in Dunedin. Anyway, I think these questions should be dealt with at central government level. I am interested in what people say and what they believe but what they do counts more. And what some people are given the political power to do on behalf of others is extremely important. IMO that needs to be well scrutinized so they use it properly, don’t exceed it or otherwise abuse it. If (as you say) any local government entity has been signing agreements and commitments with international agencies, then I think that IS exceeding their proper powers. I don’t believe international relationships and agreements are a proper function of local government. I don’t see how they can be doing that with any mandate from their constituents. To do it without even informing their constituents is even worse.
          My DCC council watching is going to focus even more on process from now on, not just with regards to whether they are following the law but with regards to whether they are exceeding their proper jurisdiction. Thank goodness the ‘powers of general competence’ have been repealed! This legal provision gave local bodies the power to do whatever they thought was good for people and resulted in a huge spending spree. People need as great a right as possible to decide for themselves what is good for them.
          Does anyone know the date when the DCC joined ICLEI and what process was used? (If any?)

        • JimmyJones

          Hype O’Thermia: YouTube and Wikipedia are good places to find out more about ICLEI. ICLEI teaches the DCC how to inflict the Sustainable Development world view on the citizens by using devious, undemocratic, secret and manipulative methods. ICLEI has helped the DCC to produce “marketing and communication” strategies to break down barriers to their deeply stupid ideas being accepted by the public. The goal is “behaviour change”. East Germany had the Stasi (Staatssicherheit), now we have ICLEI, Dave Cull and Sue Bidrose.

          The influence of ICLEI explains a few things – like the DCC’s tendency towards increasingly secret (staff only) decision-making (eg the development and implementation of the Environment Strategy) and the generally severely deficient level of public consultation due to: skimpy information, poor publicity, expanding decisions beyond the scope of the consultation and treating it as just a ceremonial procedure (eg Dave’s Bicycle Network and its implementation). The pursuit of ICLEI’s goals is a direct cause of the underfunding of the city’s deficient (and worsening) infrastructure.

          As far as I can tell most DCC councillors don’t know that the DCC has become a member of ICLEI and are unaware of the financial cost and its big influence in forming DCC policy. This demonstrates a problem with the attitude of the staff that councillors need to fix. The collusion between Dave Cull and Sue Bidrose is, however, a barrier to this that needs to be overcome. Councillors need to stop sleepwalking and start to become aware of the decisions that are being made without their involvement.

        • Gurglars

          Elizabeth this post needs being reapplied as a new post. This is the guts of much if not all of the ridiculous decision making at the DCC, in recent times.

        • Elizabeth

          Gurglars I have had a slight holiday this evening to recover from reading the GodIsUs 2GP 1600 pages while making an unsatisfactory submission that makes me face go red.

          I will consider a new post when I’m back at computer. Will dream up something to give JJ prominence. I agree.

      • JimmyJones

        Diane: I think you are wrong to characterize South Dunedin homes as being “cold and damp”. There is no reason why they should be any colder or damper than houses in other areas (except after a flood).

        You say that they are at risk of repeated flooding and that The flooding is a present reality [as in continuing/ongoing] without explaining why you believe this. The higher than normal water table means that the stormwater system must be designed accordingly. Over the last 100 years Dunedin’s sea-level has risen only 130mm. Because there is no acceleration in sea-level rise and no sign of any human influence, it is reasonable to assume that in the next 100 years the increase will also be 130mm. No cause for concern. No evacuation required.

        In fact, most parts of the city, on the flat, are at risk of repeated flooding, but only because of the attitude of the DCC (past, present and future) towards providing a properly functioning stormwater system – some, perhaps all of the city’s stormwater catchments do not reach the claimed goal of being able to cope with a one in 10 year rain event. The risk is that our stormwater upgrades will continue to be underfunded. We know from the DCC LTP that the water renewals backlog will continue to grow worse over the 10 year period of the LTP. Councillors have agreed that this should happen.

        Councillors that vote to approve the current LTP should remember that they can be personally liable for their stupid decisions – decisions that divert funding from basic infrastructure to silly money-wasters like bicycle lanes, extra libraries, food digesters, energy plans, staff worm farms, secret parking strategies, ICLEI membership fees and the destruction of the one-way system. We should be concerned that they need to be told about their priorities and even more concerned that they are apparently not listening.

        • @JimmyJones
          June 16, 2015 at 9:31 pm
          It is alarmist and irresponsible comments like these from Mayor Cull that have unnecessarily upset even sensible people that you rightly refute in your response to Diane.
          I repeat what this foolish mayor said as reported in the ODT on Sat, 13 Jun 2015:
          ‘That end game could come in many forms, but the options are dramatic and the implications far-reaching, not just for South Dunedin, but the city as a whole. Just what do you do if the lives of 10,000 people need to be uprooted? I think it’s one of the biggest issues confronting the city over the next couple of decades. We need to confront it.’

          What the Dunedin City Council need to confront is to deal with what it is properly responsible for that includes maintaining the infrastructure particularly its drainage, water supply road network, parks, libraries and suchlike. Nothing more and nothing less. It has no business talking about ‘endgames’ and uprooting 10,000 people.
          As you correctly say sea rise is not a matter of grave or immediate concern. If it happens at all it is slowly incremental and can be dealt with as needed in a timely manner.

        • Calvin Oaten

          I would suggest that the first thing in establishing a ‘sustainability system’ in a city would be to establish a sustainable financial base upon which to found any policy.The Cull McTavish cartel have failed in ‘spades’ on this factor.

  12. Elizabeth

    ### ODT Online Tue, 9 Jun 2015
    Stream of complaints over mud-tank maintenance
    By Chris Morris
    Dunedin’s flood has been followed by a deluge of complaints about inadequate maintenance. The Otago Daily Times received a steady stream of complaints yesterday reiterating concerns about a lack of basic maintenance in parts of the city.
    Read more

    • Hype O'Thermia

      They’re all wrong. Daaave told’em.
      Those stupid common people, they think because they’ve been observing their own neighbourhoods for years they know about the cleaning-out of the mud traps. They don’t. Daaave does and he ain’t taking no shit from people who only know from observation, because he knows on account of him being Mayor and they ain’t. So there, stick that in yer pipe along with the gravel and mud!

  13. Elizabeth

    ### dunedintv.co.nz June 9, 2015 – 6:48pm
    Hundreds remain displaced a week after devastating floods
    It’s estimated that hundreds of residents remain displaced, almost a week after the city’s devastating floods. In response, a recovery centre is now up and running in South Dunedin, for those most in need of assistance. And it’s part of what authorities expect to be a lengthy clean-up process.
    Video

    • Hype O'Thermia

      Let’s hope they’re still not “displaced” or living in semi-munted homes years later, like some in Christchurch.
      And for heaven’s sake don’t let Gerry Brownlee inside the city bounds. He’ll be wanting to build a conference centre ahead of getting people housed, and with our council you know what’s going to happen? Joy all round, delight at having their wee minds taken off necessities again, a conference centre we must have, in South Dunedin. And one in Mosgiel. Because you just can’t have too many conference centres, they’re guaranteed to make money, just like a Stadium With A Roof.

      • Anonymous

        That would depend on whether sausage rolls were on the menu. If no-one’s delivering those in South Dunedin then there’s little impetus for him to be there planning another stadium for the trough feeders.

  14. Anonymous

    The “1 in 10 year” event capability comes from the council’s own 3 Waters Strategy.
    http://www.dunedin.govt.nz/your-council/draft-long-term-plan-2015-2016/infrastructure-strategy/three-waters-specific-challenges

    “The Council’s stormwater system is designed to accommodate 1 in 10 year rainfall intensity events.”

  15. Lyndon Weggery

    If the DCC’s stormwater system is only designed to cope with a “1:10 year intensity” event then until this is addressed the supporting mudtanks need to be fully functioning and particularly in South Dunedin. The comments by the DCC engineer in today’s ODT are a startling revelation of how a good service has been allowed to deteriorate by taking the lowest bid by a local firm. We don’t even have vacuum trucks in Dunedin anymore to do the job.

  16. JimmyJones

    Thanks, Anonymous. My experience of the DCC leads me to be very cautious about their statements. As you say the 3 Waters Strategy says The Council’s stormwater system is designed to accommodate 1 in 10 year rainfall intensity events.. This is not the same as saying that Dunedin has a capability of coping with a 1 in 10 year rainfall event. 10 years might be just the design target; the design might not have been implemented; the 10 year spec might be achieved in some parts of the city and not others. I think we need better information.

    • Diane Yeldon

      I wonder if we would be better off thinking in terms of so many millimetres of rain in so many hours. Going back to the info in this ODT article: http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/344762/dont-blame-climate-change-city-deluge-weather-experts-say
      Depending on where you record rainfall, during the rainstorm, there was a range of 140-180 mm in 24 hours according to Dave Stewart and Met Service saying 175 mm in 24 hours. Then we have the mayor and other people saying that of course ‘the city’ can’t cope with a 175 mm of rain in a 24-hour event. But my house on the Wakari hillside did just fine – and I bet most of the others on the hills did too. So I wonder if it would be more useful to estimate for each dwelling/building a ‘rain-worthiness rating’. eg this house/building can be expected not to suffer flood damage in a x mm in 24 hours rain event. Then it would possible to use a percentage figure: y number of building in this city are not rain-worthy to a standard of an x mm of rain in 24 hours rain event. Turn that into a percentage and you can say that the present stormwater system is capable of protecting …er um…70% of the buildings in the city. It’s probably actually a much higher percentage because, from memory, media reports said that about 200 homes severely flooded. (I suppose you would have to include ‘infrastructure’ in what needed to be evaluated as protected too.)
      I’m inclined to think using a ‘percentage of buildings damaged in an x mm of rain in 24 hours rain event’ would make it much clearer how to evaluate the cost effectiveness of any proposed fixes. If you look after the welfare of the people affected, and not focus on the location of flooding, then it seems to me that generally it would be far cheaper to move the people to live to new homes in a safer location and turn the floodprone land into a recreational wetland buffer zone to slow down high volume stormwater when necessary. IMO cities are about people far more than they are about places.

  17. JimmyJones

    In November 2012 some shops in Mosgiel’s main street were flooded. The ODT report has some interesting information:

    — “Mosgiel’s stormwater infrastructure was known to be inadequate, with pipes in some areas only able to cope with a one-in-two-year rainfall event.”
    — “Ms McElhone said the long-term solution would come as the council gradually replaced small stormwater pipes with larger ones, able to accommodate at least a one-in-10-year event, across Mosgiel.”
    — ” Because of the cost involved [to upgrade to a 10 year rainfall specification], that work would be done gradually as pipes came up for renewal, she said. “We are talking decades, rather than years.”

    For Mosgiel we can see that sometimes a one-in-two-year rainfall capability is acceptable to the DCC. More importantly, it seems very likely that the capability of the Mosgiel stormwater catchment is currently less than a one-in-10-year event (because it was in Nov 2012 and because of the slowness of the upgrades).

    If the Mosgiel stormwater catchment is this bad, then it seems very likely that other parts of Dunedin could also be seriously deficient in their stormwater capability. I think that last week’s flooding demonstrated to us where those deficiencies are. Dave Cull and the staff should be honest about the situation.

    • Hype O'Thermia

      Yet the most urgent need in Mosgiel is a grand swimming pool complex, according to “leaders” in the community.

    • Peter

      I guess Syd’s ok with new drainage around his subdivision. Thank God for that.

    • Jacob

      Jimmy Jones. Council did a very small gradual replacement of stormwater pipes in Mosgiel’s main street last year. All it did was transfer the water away from the main street businesses to the residential area behind the main street. This residential area in the last downpour had some of its worst flooding in years, thanks to the council diverting the floodwater away from the business area to the residential area.
      Another major cause of flooding in Mosgiel’s main street has been the cutting off of Glasgow St from the roading network that was able to drain flood waters away, but since a certain community board member has taken control of this road reserve for pecuniary gain, and council has turned a blind eye.

    • Calvin Oaten

      Well said Jimmy. The United Nations promoted ‘Agenda 21’ is an insidious political gambit to eventually establish a quasi ‘one world government’ and the ‘global warming/ climate change’ programme is aimed as a rallying point to create fear in the masses. Fear is essential for subjugating and uniting the people to the cause. Religions have done it for eons and dictators like Hitler used Jewery as his cause. It’s more passive than shooting wars and if it can cultivate the so called ‘intelligentsia’ and political movements then it is on the way. It’s been done here in New Zealand extremely well if that is the measure. Academics have embraced the concept without question, as have our civic leaders. Just why they would accept uncorroborated unproven theories over historical facts is a mystery. The universities with their normally rigorous theory testing and peer reviewing. The facts as represented can hardly be described as science without the usual scrutiny. The local leaders not so much, as they just run on sentimental prejudices as we can see. The ‘Greater Dunedin’ grouping are constantly pummeled by the Mayor and Cr MacTavish with such as opposing oil research/ drilling and divesting investments in the fossil fuel industries and constant use of the ‘sustainability’ arguments, whatever they actually mean. There has never been any consideration of the effects of their policies and the effects on the populace at large if their wishes came to pass. It is hugely irresponsible to conduct these aims in isolation disregarding the unintended consequences of their actions. But they get away with it due to this fear factor and the unknowing of the public who don’t do any homework.

      • JimmyJones

        Calvin: what you say is all true. Helping the public to understand how they are being manipulated isn’t easy. The word “sustainability” is such a slimy word because the general public doesn’t know that it is a code-word for Sustainable Development. And the term Sustainable Development is very deceptive also, because it isn’t development and it isn’t sustainable – it’s a broad political ideology promoted by the UN.

        Please never use the phrase “one world government”. The UN is a type of world government, but we don’t know its intentions and everything we say needs to be credible and provable. Nothing destroys credibility faster than mentioning “world government”. But “chem-trails” comes close. Agenda 21 is a real conspiracy, but how do we tell people about it without appearing loopy?

  18. Elizabeth

    Cr Vandervis had already noted the absence of vacuum trucks owned by Fulton Hogan, in the city. ODT is catching up….

    ### ODT Online Wed, 10 June 2015
    Mud-tanks did not worsen floods, DCC says
    By Chris Morris
    The Dunedin City Council says the outsourcing of mud-tank maintenance has not added to the city’s flooding woes, despite the disappearance of dedicated vacuum trucks from the city. It was confirmed yesterday Fulton Hogan had no dedicated vacuum trucks for cleaning mud-tanks based in Dunedin.
    Read more [link to come]

    • Hype O'Thermia

      “Fulton Hogan had no dedicated vacuum trucks for cleaning mud-tanks based in Dunedin”. Isn’t that a bit like having no torch in your own emergency kit because it’s so convenient to borrow one from your mate who lives just round the corner? A good scheme, especially if you’re fair, you supply the batteries. Make sure you accurately forecast when the lights will be out and you’ll need to see something… the way to your mate’s house for instance.

    • Elizabeth

      http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/345297/mud-tanks-did-not-worsen-floods-dcc-says

      This ODT news item has attracted some of the best and bluntest comments on DCC evasions of truth and professional competence, ever.

      Who knew, who would have possibly guessed back at New Year’s that Mayor Death Cull and CEO Bidrose would finally be done asunder by mud tank. After the December decision they took, to lie to the public over Citifleet – that a dead man did it, the whole thing! In order to satisfy DCC’s vehicle insurance claim, was that fraudulence hanging in the air. Twisty, but then, now, there was plenty of mud to stick.

      • Hype O'Thermia

        Anyone out there thinking about Frank Zappa? About the Live at the Fillmore East album? About
        the
        mud shark? And just quietly hearing it changed in the privacy of their own ears

        —– That’s right, you heard right, the Secret Word for tonight is Mud Tank! And of course with the Mud Tank Secret Word is the Mud Tank Arpeggio . . . a marvellous little arpeggio, and now the mating call of the adult male Mud Tank . . .

        Mud Ta- Ta- Tank!

        [FZ:] THE MUD TANK DANCING LESSON! ——-

        Watch Daave’s nervous fingers dancing over the keys trying one that doesn’t go “PLONK-er” while Fulton Hogan and the DCC Apologees led by Sue Bid’Rose of Tralalalalala-I-can’t-hear-you skip from grating to grating, miming close inspection of what lies below followed by florid arm gestures indicating “nothing at ALL down there!”

        Mud Ta- Ta- Tankkkk!

        • Elizabeth

          Hype, no time! Lying passively, contemplatively, at my morning spa, having the full mud treatment, a Dunedin specialty. Luxury! You must try it, to die for. Cheaper than Rotorua.

    • Gurglars

      So I can understand this mud trap cleaning is a waste of money!

      Why then would the DCC pay Fulton Hogan annually $260,000 to clean the mudtraps? Cleaning the mudtraps is a waste of money – Yours.

  19. Calvin Oaten

    Council roading maintenance engineer Peter Standring says the system is all “tickety boo’ and that the mud-tanks did not worsen floods. The alternative was a “gold-plated”, inefficient service which the council had moved away from 12 years ago, he said. We now have an ‘inefficient’ service but without the ‘gold-plating’. In fact, the gold-plating still exists, but it is in the Town Hall, the Stadium and the Otago Settlers Museum. Not a lot of consolation for the South Dunedin residents. I would venture to suggest that most residents of Dunedin would, given the choice opt for the return of the in house engineering dept, with a City Engineer and design staff in control of the needs and development of the city. It worked pretty well in hindsight, compared with the ‘ad hoc’ seat of the pants systems today. Wet behind the ears people holding down supposed qualified positions, beholden to contractors and consultants whose first priorities are profit as opposed to what is best for the city. It is not as if there have been any savings effected by the transition. I always refer to the St Clair sea wall as the bench mark of the system and how that it has failed abysmally. Now we are told that the stormwater contractors are so profit orientated that they don’t even have on hand a single full-size mud tank vacuum suction vehicle in their inventory. They subcontract out to an Invercargill company to do periodic visits. There are literally thousands of mud tanks throughout the city, yet our Peter Standring deems that acceptable. Dave Cull and council are either so out of touch with reality, or that staff are just concealing their own inadequacies. Either way it’s the poor public that gets shafted. ‘Best little city in the world’ Huh!!? Not by a bloody long shot Dave.

  20. Simon

    I see Tony’s fingerprints all over this mess. No more tenders let. Just selected mates to put in a price for the job. Then subcontract it out. Shades of Citifleet all over again. Tony knew when to move on when it got a bit hot.

  21. Elizabeth

    Nation-wide appeal after Dunedin floods
    The co-ordination and initial processing of the fund applications will be done from the Recovery Assistance Centre in the Church of Christ Hall at 3 Prince Albert Rd, South Dunedin.

    The centre is open from 10am to 4pm Monday to Saturday and until 7.30pm on Thursday. The centre can also be reached on 0800 356 633.

    Relief fund application forms can be found here.

    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/345366/nationwide-appeal-after-dunedin-floods

  22. Elizabeth

    ### dunedintv.co.nz June 10, 2015 – 5:33pm
    Your word on flood-related property damage
    Residents are recovering from a spate of disruptive weather, including snow, an earthquake and some of the worst flooding the city’s ever seen. Widespread damage is being assessed and repaired, as locals clean up their homes and businesses. And with that in mind, our word on the street team asked members of the public if their property was damaged in the deluge.
    Video

  23. Elizabeth

    Care of DCC / Fulton Hogan (via YouTube) : drone footage of slips at Dunedin, go to http://www.odt.co.nz/video/news/dunedin/345483/video-spectacular-drone-footage-dunedin-slips

  24. Elizabeth

    ### ODT Online Thu, 11 June 2015
    Combination of problems with sewage
    By Craig Borley
    Raw sewage entered Dunedin’s floodwaters through a combination of intense rainfall, cracked old foul sewer pipes, and an overflowing stormwater system, the Dunedin City Council’s group manager for water and waste, Laura McElhone said. When the stormwater system became overloaded and flooding began, water rose above the foul sewer gully traps each Dunedin property had.
    Read more

    • Clyde

      “A planned multimillion-dollar upgrade would replace the old pipes in the Kaikorai Valley area.
      That was expected to have a significant impact on improving the system as a whole – especially for South Dunedin – as Kaikorai Valley’s waste water all flowed underneath South Dunedin on its way to the city’s St Kilda waste water plant.”
      How the hell can more water from a new upgraded Kaikorai area that will flow under South Dunedin be an improvement for South Dunedin. Shouldn’t the council be upgrading the South Dunedin pipes first in preparation for all this extra waste water from Kaikorai ?

      • Calvin Oaten

        Bloody great, a multimillion-dollar upgrade in Kaikorai. A multumillion-dollar upgrade of the Tahuna Treatment Station but still the 120 year old system in the middle. Spot the problem?

        • Calvin: I think the difference was sewage. I mean serious contamination of stormwater at the Kaikorai end and seawater at the Tahuna end. And I wouldn’t be surprised if the Otago Regional Council had been putting the pressure on the DCC about polluting natural water.

  25. From the goons- Major Gryttpipe- Thynn

    “Who will be responsible for taking up the drains at Hackney! and who will be responsible for putting them back again?”

    Clearly Peter Sellers realised the problems electing ANY public officials brought to their financial masters (read slaves) the ratepayers.

  26. Isn’t the internet wonderful. I found the reference pls scroll down!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Goon_Show_running_jokes

  27. Elizabeth

    ### ODT Online Fri, 12 Jun 2015
    Flood cost will be in millions
    By Timothy Brown
    The damage bill for last week’s deluge in Dunedin looks set to be in the millions as insurance claims pour in. The Insurance Council of New Zealand and the Dunedin City Council say it might be weeks before the cost of the flood can be quantified, but early figures show a multimillion-dollar price tag is likely.
    Read more + DCC flood recovery information

    █ Dunedin City Council recovery manager Simon Pickford said the council wanted to hear from anyone affected by the floods who had not yet been contacted by the recovery team. (ODT)

  28. Tim

    Cost of the flood damage is what John Farry would call a “piss in the bucket” or should it be “piss in the streets”.

  29. Hype O'Thermia

    If John Farry’s bucket, among others, hadn’t been so lavishly pissed in there would be more money available for essentials.

    • Yes Mr. Thermia
      And did you notice this little gem. (McNeilly)
      “Damage to Dunedin’s roading network following last week’s widespread flooding is not covered by insurance, with ratepayers facing a hefty bill for roading repair.”

      Now I wonder why we are so short of money that we can’t cover insurance for our essential items. Nothing to do with the bucket you mention is it?

  30. Simon

    We might have an uninsured roading network. A third world stormwater and sewerage network, but we do have the only covered stadium in NZ.

  31. Gurglar (as down the)

    Why not reroute the stormwater drains to the stadium site, open all the cocks, flood the bloody bottomless pit and claim the insurance.

    Brilliant.

    Oops, forgot to insure the stadium, couldn’t afford it.

    Decision made by Brent Bachop so nobody to blame.

  32. Anonymous

    Bah. I had 2016 for “managed retreat” being seriously suggested in mainstream media. Put it on record that Dave has abandoned South D as of 12/6/2015.

  33. Elizabeth

    City to face ‘end game’ in the lowlands
    South Dunedin is a suburb under siege by Mother Nature – battered by ocean waves, floods, a rising water table and with the dark clouds of climate change predictions building on the horizon. So is it time to head for the hills?
    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/345701/city-face-end-game-lowlands

  34. Elizabeth

    Dunedin is led by the crazy greenie love- or lust-bitten Death Cull.

    • @Elizabeth
      June 13, 2015 at 8:47 am
      Dunedin is led by the crazy greenie love- or lust-bitten Death Cull.
      Elizabeth
      Has he been drinking too much of the ‘kool aid’ again? Just look at this Malthusian headline!

      ‘Dunedin Mayor Dave Cull believes South Dunedin is at a crossroads and it is time to start considering the ”end game”.
      That end game could come in many forms, but the options are dramatic and the implications far-reaching, not just for South Dunedin, but the city as a whole. Just what do you do if the lives of 10,000 people need to be uprooted?’

      What unadulterated utter tosh!
      This person is pontificating away on things way beyond his and the council’s means while the city is literally drowning alright – in debt.
      Calvin makes a few pertinent and sane observations in his summary here, but for a picture of what South Dunedin has been through from time to time and I might add recovered from, take a look at this excerpt:

      FLOODS IN THE SOUTH.
      PITIFUL SCENES.
      MUCH DAMAGE DONE.
      (BY TELEGRAPH —PRESS ASSOCIATION.)
      DUNEDIN, April 23
      With the exception of low-lying land in the north end South Dunedin suffered worst. Viewed from the Caversham rise, there is one sea of water from the hill to the foreshore and from Kensington to Ocean Beach. The inner fence around the Carisbrook ground is entirely submerged, and in many places only housetops and chimney-stacks are showing. A wooden house in Wiikie road was shifted about 30 feet by a landslide, and collided with another house, which was also damaged.
      You can read the whole story here at Papers Past.
      FLOODS IN THE SOUTH.
      Hawera & Normanby Star, Volume XLII, 24 April 1923, Page 5

      The Mayor should be focussed upon what he has to do now to help the people in need just as previous mayors have done. He should take a leaf from their books and leave these sorts of predictions to the likes of Nostrodamus.

      • Elizabeth

        Mick. Too right. The flood damage and human ordeal accepted (yes, dire level of need given numbers and circumstances), worked with, worked through, slow recovery. What sickeningly shocks is the lack of dignity, integrity, sense and compassion shown in a week of media statements from Mayor Cull. If he was already overstressed – which was public contention during the Vandervis conduct debacle – now he is maximally stressed to the point of being asinine and impudent in equal measure. Not a Mayor, rather a broken maliciously contemptible fool.

        Someone hit him on the head.

  35. Calvin Oaten

    The ‘dark clouds of Climate Change’. The great let out eagerly embraced by the seriously green tinted Greater Dunedin Party led by Dave Cull. This is all based on anecdotal evidence and predictions sold to various governments and councils by the United Nations fostered seriously compromised International Panel on Climate Control (IPCC). Our own Otago University also embraces the concept, again following Central Government’s wishes. Of course the OU is dependent on Govt funding and grants so it would be injudicious to not get in behind. There is an interesting conflict when one of their own, John Hannah, together with Mr Bell from NIWA published in 2012 a joint paper showing that New Zealand’s annual sea rise amounted to 1.3mm per annum or 130mm in 100 years. This compares with the projected 400mm by 2040 and 800mm to 1.6 metres by 2090. Prof Blair Fitzharris in a commissioned DCC report predicted the most dire warnings based on those projected figures, and this is being embraced as gospel by Dave Cull and CEO Bidrose. The only piece of empirical evidence appears to be that of John Hannah’s paper based on historical research. How embarrassing that must be for the OU. I guess Hannah will somehow support ‘Climate Change’ in spite of his work, at least if he wants to keep his tenure and funding. It is all so sad as it looks like South Dunedin will be tossed on the discard heap on the strength of computer modelling exercises by the so-called academic experts, not by logic and historical observations. Of course logic and historic observations are not one of the DCC’s in-house activities, but rather the reliance on consultants and advisers who take the opportunity to push their own agendas. Oh for the good old days when the city had its own in house engineering design and contracting department, devoid of fanciful ideas but dealing instead with realities.

    • Peter

      Calvin. I suspect there are many people who have tired of the climate change debate and the fixed positions on both sides of the fence about the degree/intensity….or even reality…of climate change. Personally, I am not qualified to give a reasoned argument because I am out of my league. I’m afraid I tend to leave this debate to the experts….who are themselves conflicted…. but I will go with the consensus. That is good enough for me. When I see a conservative, like German Chancellor, Angela Merkel…..an amazing leader…speak of climate change I take note.

      • Gurglars

        Peter, I understand your wishing and hoping that Angela would be upright.

        However, you need to look at the Lawrence Yule mantra “we have to raise taxes to support local government”.

        Governments, local, state and national have realised that taking 56% and greater of people’s income in many cases like PAYE, prior to being received by the worker is becoming less acceptable to the worker due to his/her inability to make ends meet.

        Public service wallahs have to continue to find more cash from taxpayers in order to continue their payrises above the level of inflation. Bracket creep (inflation causing higher tax takes through the progressive taxation regime do not work in periods of low inflation).

        The idea that a carbon tax based on the philosophy, first of global warming, and now climate change, has been the latest basis providing a fearful electorate with temporary justification for fuels made from plants despite their unreasonable cost.
        it also provides new bases for taxation increases.

        Until the seas actually show signs of rising, we should all be very wary of the politicians wishing to increase the tax take in whatever guise.

        In Dunedin’s case we should be even more vigilant because the tax take has become debilitating and the council all wear hats with 10/6 on the side.*

        * See Alice in Wonderland for the hat that the Mad Hatter wore.

        In fact right now that hat should be included as mandatory in the mayor’s robes of office.

  36. russandbev

    It’s the old story – follow the money. Is there anyone making money out of the subject of global warming or now climate change? Damn right there is. Just a few years ago we were listening to a variety of academics and others on peak oil and the price of oil. Same people now broadly talking about climate change and how it is already here. As far as I can see there are no scientific findings that show that this is the case.

    The earth has been subject to violent changes in climate over both long-term cycles and shorter cycles and in many cases these have been triggered by “natural” events such as volcanic activity. Of course it is not good nor desirable for humans to burn fossil fuels or send vast quantities of toxic substances into the air or the oceans, but it’s also wrong to ascribe every human activity into one of impending doom.

    Cull is now proclaiming that the recent rainstorm in Dunedin was a 1 in 150 year event which is arrant nonsense. But surprisingly, despite the evidence, none of the mainstream media is picking him up on this crap. Why? Can’t they read? Cull gets away with it because no-one will stand up to this BS. Why?

    The issue that he is raising makes me think of Holland. How much of their land lies below sea level? Are they in full flight from their lands? Not when I last looked. So don’t they believe in whatever Cull believes in? Or have they got better solutions?

    • Peter

      Certainly, Russell, we have heard the floods are anything from a one in ten year event, within the council, to now a 1 in 150 year event according to Dave Cull. What is it?
      I wonder if the longer time frame is political. It takes the pressure off. Not our problem. Kick the whole thing down the road. Like our debt. Another generation’s problem.

    • Hype O'Thermia

      Russandbev, fear pays. Panic is worth its weight in gold.

      Remember the Y2K catastrophe when at the turn of the century all computers failed?

      • Peter

        Hype. I’m not sure whether fear is for all people. I think we are very adaptable to whatever Mother Nature throws our way. I don’t think we are doomed as a species.
        When we are urged to adapt to clean, green technology as opposed to fossil fuels that makes sense to me irrespective of climate change. Why wouldn’t we? We have a responsibility to the planet to look after it. We don’t shit around our own homes, so why crap our planet….especially given the six billion….and growing….population?
        I feel optimistic we can and will adapt.

        • Hype O'Thermia

          I’ve always thought wastefulness is wrong, disrespecting the place we live with litter and noxious materials is wrong, exploiting (as distinct from using responsibly) other people, fauna and flora is wrong, not because of any theory but because it’s just deep-down ….. wrong. The fear I refer to is the kind promulgated, hoop-la’d a la “world is ending” cults that have adherents gasping their way to mountain tops where they will be “saved”. Russandbev’s “follow the money. Is there anyone making money out of the subject of global warming or now climate change?” rang an entire peal of bells, for me.

    • @russandbev
      June 13, 2015 at 5:37 pm

      You say – and I agree “It’s the old story – follow the money. Is there anyone making money out of the subject of global warming or now climate change? Damn right there is. Just a few years ago we were listening to a variety of academics and others on peak oil and the price of oil. Same people now broadly talking about climate change and how it is already here. As far as I can see there are no scientific findings that show that this is the case.”

      But I think it is even more than that with the Greens and our Greater Dunedin acolytes. It is Lysenkoism. In the case of the ‘climate meme’ that these people are so quick to shove down everyone’s throats, it is the manipulation or distortion of scientific processes as a way to reach a predetermined conclusion. This is dictated by ideology and related to social or political objectives. Think Agenda 21. But these fools who grandly call themselves “Greater Dunedin” are simply pawns in the game. They are ‘owned’. But witness how Dave Cull quickly seized upon it last week. It demonstrated my point perfectly. Science falsely manipulated for his own ends. All this because of their obsession over co2 (the stuff of life) and fossil fuels. And to boot, in this case to scare the ‘bejesus’ out of the little old people who live in South Dunedin.

    • Gurglars

      A Snorkel.

  37. Gurglars

    Succinct Douglas Bravo.

  38. Tussock

    I don’t know if anybody noticed. We have a Dunedin City Council civil defence and rural fires manager Mr Neil Brown. Who has been sitting on his throne for a number of years, on rather a large salary, waiting for the big one.
    Well according to the big boss Dave we got the big one. The one in one hundred and fifty years. Houses flooded, sewage mixing with stormwater. Residents not knowing who to turn to.
    What did Neil do. Closed the civil defence operation down at 11.30pm on the day of the flood.
    If you want a sand bag, go down to the St Kilda Surf Club and get your own.
    Do we need a civil defence manager ? Another bloody ratepayer funded liability.

    • Elizabeth

      Yes, noticed. Tussock, not sure at what point DCC and Civil Defence agreed handover of flood emergency to disaster recovery. DCC is far better resourced with executive management for providing coordination, human aid and infrastructure services generally through its staff, departments and networks. DCC’s Simon Pickford was made Recovery Manager fairly early in the piece.

      Word yesterday was the St Kilda Surf Club volunteers and Red Cross gave exceptional service to South Dunedin. Red Cross gave critical assistance to the flooded Fulton Home, including transfer of the truly vulnerable to safe accommodation – I have this on good authority. I also understand the four wheel drive club provided essential vehicle services.

    • Diane Yeldon

      Neil Brown made a report on Civil Defence at the Planning and Regulatory Committee Meeting on 9 June 2015, which I recorded. And Cr Vandervis asked him a lot of questions. This report was scheduled before the flood and they decided to go ahead with presenting and discussing it – and will eventually get a flood update. I can post the link if this is of interest. And I have noted the time when the agenda items start so you don’t have to listen to the whole meeting.

  39. Hype O'Thermia

    The four wheel drive club members are bloody marvellous. What happens on snow days when the regular meals on wheels drivers can’t do the job? The four wheel drive club makes sure none of the old and sick people miss out on their hot meal.
    Just wanted to say.

    • Elizabeth

      The four wheel drive club also provides transport for hospital staff on snow days. We should get someone from the club to do a background profile here. I will look into this.

      • Hype O'Thermia

        Yes, at a time when groups of “community leaders” and “stakeholders” and so on have profiles and voices far beyond their worth to the community, it would be good to give a shout-out to those thoroughly decent blokes and blokesses who don’t do their good deeds with view to laying their paws on the civic wallet.

        Might encourage more ppl who own 4WDs and are interested in associating with a worthwhile bunch of people, to get involved with the club. There’s more to 4WDs than being polished shopping trolleys and taking Morwenna to afterschool Experiential Dancing with Play-doh class.

  40. Elizabeth

    ### ODT Online Mon, 15 Jun 2015
    Work on worst-affected houses nearly done
    By Damian George
    The clean-up of the most badly affected homes following the flooding in South Dunedin is expected to be completed in the next few days, the Dunedin City Council says. Council services and development general manager Simon Pickford said of the 6000 homes assessed after the flood, 280 were deemed to be of the greatest need. Council had now attended to most of those.
    Read more

  41. russandbev

    I see that the Wellington Mayor is now saying that the current big southerly swells hitting the south of the North Island is all down to climate change. Presumably Cull and her will be in a close contest to get as much money or attention from central government. Fact is that for several days there have been typical southerlies down the east coast of the South Island which have now reached the North Island. To be totally expected. Good grief.

  42. @Elizabeth
    June 15, 2015 at 4:44 pm
    Mayor Cull buys sustainablly forested bamboo-fabric underwear.

    Hate to chuck a spanner in his works but – he might have to go back to NZ flax and do a bit of scraping and beating to get his undies. The local Iwi could give him a few pointers techniquewise.
    The poor bastard can’t win – check this :

    Sustainably forested Bamboo i.e.Rattans are threatened with overexploitation, as harvesters are cutting stems too young and reducing their ability to resprout. Unsustainable harvesting of rattan can lead to forest degradation, affecting overall forest ecosystem services. Processing can also be polluting. The use of toxic chemicals and petrol in the processing of rattan affects soil, air and water resources, and also ultimately people’s health. Meanwhile, the conventional method of rattan production is threatening the plant’s long-term supply, and the income of workers.

  43. Also take special notice, this in case Jinty is thinking about getting in on the rattan act. No petrol.

    The use of toxic chemicals and petrol in the processing of rattan affects soil, air and water resources, and also ultimately people’s health.

  44. Elizabeth

    Here’s how it goes.

    Anyone even vaguely suggesting (like they truly believe it) CLIMATE CHANGE is responsible for weather events, flooding in South Dunedin, inundation of the dunes at St Clair, coloured freaking pavers in the CBD, or the need to divest from extraction and use of fossil fuels WILL BE BANNED FROM THIS WEBSITE.

    I simply will not stand irresponsible drivel of this sort. We have better things to consider thoughtfully, purposefully, to wage wars about.

    Satire, scathings and political cartooning on these subjects, or about weirdo doomsayers/greenies are MOST acceptable – of course!

    Elizabeth
    Site Owner

  45. Gurglars ex Cars

    I thought Cars was banned, teacher.

  46. Elizabeth

    {Relocated from another thread. Relevance. -Eds}

    brownestudy
    Submitted on 2015/06/15 at 11:54 pm
    There was a rain gauge at Musselburgh in, oh, the 20th Century. How Green Was Our Valley then? I agree with comments here, if only because it is unfair to scare innocent South Dunedinites with News At Doom. Localised anthropomorphic climate change (caused by anthro men) aside, there is no mountaintop for our brothers and sisters in Kiribati and Samoa. Why are the atolls underwater, why are Pacific peoples wanting to move?

    ****

    Elizabeth
    Submitted on 2015/06/16 at 12:15 am | In reply to brownestudy.
    Timescale to the last eon, dinosaur or huia bird is not the tornado of the Taieri plain last week.

    • Douglas Field

      brownestudy
      Submitted on 2015/06/15 at 11:54 p.m.

      You ask. ‘Why are the atolls underwater, why are Pacific peoples wanting to move?’

      In a nutshell over population and shortage of potable water.

      Where do they get their water?
      The islands are low. Only up to 3 metres above sea level – no mountains to induce rainfall and make rivers.

      According to Willis Eschenbach (writing in WUWT) water [fresh potable ground water availability] appears to be a big issue, as is coral mining and fishing (yes fish can upset the coral atoll growth). Others point to rubbish – simply put they are running out of places to dig holes and bury the stuff.
      The islands are low. Only up to 3 metres above sea level – no mountains to induce rainfall and make rivers.

      Where do they get their water?

      From rainwater in a lens that floats on top of the seawater inside the coral reef that the seawater penetrates throughout the porous coral rubble base. Because fresh water is lighter than salt water, the freshwater lens is floating on this subsurface part of the ocean. The amount of fresh water in the lens is a balance between what is added and what is withdrawn or lost. The lens is only replenished by rain.

      Drought has long been the bane of Kiribati. When your only water comes from a small lens of fresh water renewed only by rain, it is a matter of life and death.

      As for the rainfall one of the most important ecological factors in the Gilbert Islands is drought. These islands are periodically affected by it. There was a two-year drought in 1917-1919, a three-year drought in 1937-1939, and another, which lasted a year and a half in 1949-1951.
      Tarawa, the middle row, is the capital of Kiribati. Like the other islands, it depended entirely on rainfall for drinking water.

      But the island has a very high population density.
      From a population of 20,000 in 1940 to around 105,000 today.
      You can see the danger. The population is skyrocketing. And unlike just about every country on the planet, there is absolutely no sign of any slowdown in the Kiribati population growth rate.

      But the rain … the rain is unchanged. It’s still years of wet and then years of dry, just like always … but when you have three times the people, the dry years become unsustainable.
      It would seem that these islands, where the soil is so poor, and which suffer from recurrent severe droughts, should have a small population. We observe, on the contrary, a very high demographic density.

      So therein lie the salient reasons why the people want to move. Too many people living on an island with insufficient fresh water coupled with poor soils.
      Compelling enough.

      Regarding atolls and sea level rise, the most important fact was discovered by none other than Charles Darwin. He realized that coral atolls essentially “float” on the surface of the sea. When the sea rises, the atoll rises with it. They are not solid, like a rock island. They are a pile of sand and rubble. There is always material added and material being lost. Atolls exist in a delicate balance between new sand and coral rubble being added from the reef, and atoll sand and rubble being eroded by wind and wave back into the sea or into the lagoon. As sea level rises, the balance tips in favour of sand and rubble being added to the atoll. The result is that the atoll rises with the sea level.

  47. Gurglars ex Cars

    Atolls are not a good measure. By definition they appear and disappear over time.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atoll

  48. Peter

    Jimmy. You say, ‘Diane: I think you are wrong to characterize South Dunedin homes as being “cold and damp”. There is no reason why they should be any colder or damper than houses in other areas (except after a flood).’

    I’m not sure how you can come to this conclusion when you look at older housing stock there, cheek by jowl and in a poor state of repair. Take a walk around some of the backstreets of South Dunedin. Think also about the high water table that is there.
    Are these good conditions for ‘warm and dry’ houses?

    • JimmyJones

      Peter: apart from the age of the houses and perhaps the below average income of the occupants, there is no reason why South Dunedin houses should be any colder or damper than houses in other areas.
      I haven’t seen any figures that say that South Dunedin houses are colder or damper than houses in other areas, but if they are, then there will be various contributing causes, but among those contributing causes will not be their South Dunedin location. Transplant all the cold and damp South Dunedin houses to North East Valley and they will still be cold and damp houses. I am saying that there is nothing intrinsic about South Dunedin that would cause houses to be cold and damp.
      But what about the high water table? Well that is only a factor when it contributes to flooding. The predominant factor causing the flooding seems to have been the deficient DCC stormwater system. In normal times the high water table has no effect. The soil in your garden there, is no damper than anywhere else and so the high water table doesn’t cause damp houses.

      • Hype O'Thermia

        JimmyJones you’re right (again!) – old NZ houses built for the largely classless working people (before massive unemployment and the chasm between rich/well off and poor) and occupied by today’s poor are cold and damp. They weren’t built insulated, our forefathers built like NZ was a picture postcard “islands in the Pacific” with climate to match – match islands much closer to the equator, that is. Villas with huge single glazed windows gathering condensation to drip over the windowsill onto the floor. The current message to block up all draughts doesn’t entirely help, when heating is a scarce luxury nobody wants to open a window to let the damp out, another message that conflicts with the drafts one and advice to keep the heat in.
        Re the recent dead baby scandal involving one of the government’s houses, coroner linked cold damp house with the wee girl’s death – can you understand the family’s complaints about the condition of the house being “solved” by giving them a small heater, without so much as a query about why they didn’t have AND USE one already? Those heaters are so cheap to buy now, it would have been a reasonable question, and they would have got the answer – can’t afford heater and can’t afford to run one.
        Same goes for many of the people in “cold damp” houses. Why are they living in those houses in the first place? Cheap rentals? If owner occupied, no spare money for batts and gib board replacing scrim, sparse use of heaters to make income reach from payday to payday?
        It’s about money.
        LIVING wage – unaffordable! Death is cheap, illness not so much but it’s from a different budget so that’s OK.
        Rental housing w.o.f.? Lipstick on porkies. If employers can’t afford to pay a living wage, why does anyone think landlords will provide upgrades to rental properties for no extra cost?

      • Peter

        JJ. Where does damp go when there is a high water table? Isn’t damp, cold?

        • JimmyJones

          Peter: There is no abnormal dampness. South Dunedin soil is like soil everywhere else. The water table is underground – and it stays there unless there is heavy rain that exceeds the fairly feeble capacity of the DCC stormwater system. Most parts of South Dunedin receive good amounts of sun from being further away from the hills. I would guess that South Dunedin houses are a bit warmer than the average Dunedin house (for the same house age, condition, household income and suchlike).

    • @Peter
      June 17, 2015 at 12:25 pm

      You are concerned about the high water table in South Dunedin. Why so?
      While the water table is high here and effected by the tide, observe the trees and shrubs that are growing in that part of town. They are surviving quite well in the present conditions and water table level. They would not if the water table was at a dangerously high level that the oxygen would be cut off from the roots.
      If the plants are thriving (and they can’t move away) then I wouldn’t be too concerned about the water table.

      • Peter

        Douglas and JJ. Vegetation can grow and survive anywhere,so that is not an argument, but the two questions are not answered.
        I think you might be trying to shoe horn your argument about agreed DCC negligence being responsible for everything.
        You would be the first people l’m aware of that don’t concede too many SD houses are cold and damp….due to poverty from poor upkeep as well as damp and cold rising from the ground. It happens.

        • JimmyJones

          Peter: it’s not a matter of great importance, but to answer your questions:
          Where does damp go when there is a high water table?
          — Except for unusual events, the damp stays in the ground. For the average South Dunedin house, the ground surface is high enough above the water table to have no unusual dampness at the surface. It’s like at the beach – the sand can be perfectly dry on top, but dig down low enough and it will be wet.
          Isn’t damp, cold?
          — There is no damp. See above.

          Also – I believe that the DCC’s negligence was responsible for most/all of the damage to homes and shops. I am sure that with a properly functioning stormwater system, the flooding would have been minor and not above people’s floor level (nominally 300mm). I blame the DCC councillors and staff for not properly maintaining the mudtanks, for ignoring the various well known water bottlenecks, for being much too slow at replacing the skinny, cracked, broken, clogged old pipes and for hiding from us the very sorry state of the city’s stormwater system.

        • Peter

          JJ. You have obviously not heard of the term ‘rising damp’.

        • Hype O'Thermia

          Peter, damp from below the top of the soil doesn’t just rise through the air into houses. It can rise through capillary action into unprotected masonry and timber when there is water on top of the ground if they touch the ground. This is the reason for damp-proof courses between foundations and the rest of the house.

  49. JimmyJones

    Diane Yeldon: It looks like we both know that democracy is important and that citizens need to be properly informed. Despite the changes to the Local Government Act it looks like the DCC’s spending spree is continuing. Dave Cull hasn’t adjusted to the newly defined purpose of local government.

    I requested info about ICLEI last year. This is what I was told by the DCC:
    — Is the DCC currently a member of ICLEI (www.iclei.org)?
    Yes
    — When did you first join (as a member of ICLEI)?
    Archives have looked into this although to date, a search of both the print and electronic record has been unable to confirm when we first joined. We do know it was pre-2006.
    — Who decided (who made the decision to join ICLEI)?
    Archives have looked into this but again, we have yet to locate a decision in relation to this.

    Remember that with the DCC, “we don’t know” can mean “we don’t want to tell you”. Anyway, it looks like another request is needed.

  50. Anonymous

    Twice this week I’ve observed a council worker (or might have been a contractor) clear a grating around central Dunedin, but on both occasions use a spade to scrap the rubbish from the top of the grate and then broom it down the gutter. This appears to be cosmetic maintenance and I haven’t seen any attempt to remove the built up mud from under the grate. Just now I noticed the water flowing straight over top of one of them. When – not if – the next 10/100/150-year (or what ever they’re trying to call it currently) rainfall occurs the same thing is going to happen. Again.

    JimmyJones – that is absolutely frightening what you are referring to. Clearly this council has been hell bent on causing vehicular calamity about town and they’re still doing it with the changes in south Dunedin. It feels like you’re caught in some mad scientist’s rat maze when you come up against those new one way blockages.

    • Peter

      Anonymous. That part of central Dunedin is lucky! The grate outside our central Dunedin home is chocka. I have removed about a doz beer cans for recycling, but the other crap is still there, probably waiting to be picked up by me on the eventual next trip to the tip with my other green waste grom the garden.
      Maybe l should shit in the gutter and tell the DCC something is wrong with the sewer!

      • Anonymous

        That would probably involve some idiot manager shutting down Dunedin for a day while methods are investigated to resolve a “bio-hazard” on that scale. Although couldn’t imagine one of those new fancy pants managers with the likes of “intelligence” or “safety officer” in their title having any clue what to do with something real world involving blocked drains and turdies.

        • Peter

          Anonymous. Yes, but at least something might happen. People hate poo…. unless you are a bit weird.

    • Hype O'Thermia

      GoDunners on Thu, 18/06/2015 – 7:10pm.
      The road outside our South D house usually has substantial surface flooding when there’s sustained heavy rain. It didn’t have any pooling in the recent 100 year flood. This was because the contractors cleaned out the mud drains in January. It made a world of difference……… (complete comment is at http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/345046/drains-blocked-residents-claim#comment-72941)

  51. Elizabeth

    MORE UTTER CRAP coming out of University of Otago, perpetuated by ODT !!!!

    GLOBAL WARMING —Prof Hulbe: potential challenges in some areas such as South Dunedin could come not only from the sea directly, but also from below, through a rising water table.

    ### ODT Online Mon, 9 Nov 2015
    Ice research could help protect city
    By John Gibb
    Climate change insights gained by University of Otago researchers investigating a remote part of the Antarctic could help with better protecting South Dunedin and other low lying coastal areas. That is the view of Otago University dean of surveying Prof Christina Hulbe, who is leading an Antarctic research programme, including an expedition to the Ross Ice Shelf.
    Read more

  52. Calvin Oaten

    Yeah right Elizabeth! But hey! it’ll be a great trip for them, all funded off the public hind teat. By the time they do the trip, take their echos from the 250kg thingy they plan to drop on the ice two or three times, scare the ‘jobbies’ out of the fish and seals under the ice, come back and write a bit of a sketch of the exercise, wait for the peer reviews, then this will fill in a year or so of their tenures so it can’t all be bad. Can it? Climate change has sod all to do with it other than the excuse for funding. As always.

  53. Elizabeth

    Keeps getting scarier, what the boffins and the lunatic climate changers are willing to fill the heads of national leadership with – such that large budgets are sought (away from Health and Education). With this kind of urging, stacked on top of MacTavish’s kind ministrations to his ears and other sensibilities, God freaking knows what Dave will do next at #DUD.

    GREEN IS A FLOOD PREPARE THE ARK, DUNEDIN
    CONDUCT YOURSELVES IN PAIRS AND CLIMB ABOARD

    “Continuing sea level rise is not something that might happen – it is already happening, will accelerate, and will continue for the indefinite future.” –Jan Wright, Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment

    ### ODT Online Thu, 19 Nov 2015
    National News
    Rising sea levels: 9000 homes at risk
    New Zealand needs to completely overhaul the way it is preparing for rising sea levels, the Government’s environmental watchdog says, as up to 9000 coastal homes sit precariously close to the high water mark. A newly released report by the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment Jan Wright also says the Government needs to start preparing for the huge potential cost of rising oceans driven by climate change, which could lead to the “managed retreat” of coastal communities to higher ground.
    Read more

    SAVE SOUTH DUNEDIN PROPERTY OWNERS AND RENTERS FROM DAVE AND DCC

    Oh wait, there’s the 2GP….

  54. Gurglars

    Well its pleasing to know that the sea level is now rising. Predictions of 1 metre rise by 2050 would surely mean that the level would have to rise by a millimetre at some time soon.

    But wait, there has been no sea level rise in Dunedin Harbour.

    Is this a new element of climate change, that Dunedin has been left out, a backwater. Or is the claim now that the sea level rises in some places and not others. This however could prove that in fact we in the southern hemisphere are actually on top and the sea has dropped to the bottom.

    Oh its exciting this sea level rise, I can ‘t wait for the new name for it.
    Sea Level movement, just like global warming when the earth started to cool, it brought the madmen into disrepute, so they renamed global warming climate change.

    Watch for Sea Level Movement, formerly called Tides.

    From the tax collector nearest you.

    • Hype O'Thermia

      Gurglars, the sea level is definitely rising. Fortunately the land is also rising.
      It’s hard to know who to believe, Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment Jan Wright, or dear old Isaiah:
      Arise, shine, for your light has come,
      and the glory of the Lord has risen upon you.
      For behold, darkness shall cover the earth,
      and thick darkness the peoples;
      but the Lord will arise upon you,
      and his glory will be seen upon you.
      And nations shall come to your light,
      and kings to the brightness of your rising. (Isaiah 60:1-3 ESV)

      …or, perhaps, neither of them.

  55. Calvin Oaten

    I was told recently by a well known retired academic that I was an unbeliever and that the sea temperature was very dramatically rising and the effect is ice melting with resulting sea levels rising drastically. In a word we are all doomed, just like emeritus Prof Blair Harris reported to the DCC. That other emeritus Prof Alan Mark is busy espousing the same line, though as an expert on tussocks why his opinion over anyone else should be gospel eludes me. However, in response to the warning I ‘Googled’ Sea Temperatures and found an ocean satellite monitoring station which showed that on 13 November 2015 the maximum temp measured was 32.5degC and the minimum was -3.9degC. So I guess you could take your pick in between and say what you liked and be right. Funny that anyone could say from that the temp was increasing.

  56. Richard Stedman

    Chicken Little knew more about this stuff than anybody. The ocean is not rising, it is only coming and going; but the sky is definitely falling, I think. But then again it might not be, but we should all know in a jinty. Thank goodness there are people who can save us from all this catastrophe as long as they can up the tax take. As for Dunedin’s flat land, the crust on the swamp is heading down. Be very very careful.

  57. Elizabeth

    I was just telling a politician I’m not into explosives. They suggested poison.

  58. Elizabeth

    There’s nothing DOOM-like to trigger my extremism, yet – besides, in less than 25 years I’ll have kicked the bucket and the place without climate change will still look the same, it’ll still heat up and cool down the same…. Y’know I think Richard is going somewhere with his Swamp campaign, or maybe something more intrepid should be done to put #DUD on the radical map of benign poverty, such as Harbour Cone carved back to reveal Dave’s bust. Legend that he is.

    He and SP are among the criminally insane – they intend to use our dollars against us to promote and effect “the great FUCK-THEM retreat” (the poor buggers of South Dunedin and elsewhere prone to weather/ slips/ floods/ blocked mud tanks and filters – NOT CLIMATE CHANGE), all expensively predicated by sycophantic reports from fuckwit consultants.
    AND NO DCC INFRASTRUCTURE MAINTENANCE

    Now about that poison. Or explosives, at a pinch.

    Woops. Here we go:

    Dunedin City Council – Media Release
    Mayor welcomes report on sea level rise

    This item was published on 19 Nov 2015

    Mayor of Dunedin Dave Cull welcomes today’s release of the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment’s (PCE) second report into sea level rise and looks forward to central government working more closely with local government on climate change adaptation. The report outlines the issue of sea level rise faced by New Zealand communities and offers eight recommendations to respond to the issue. A key finding of the report is that preparing for sea level rise is very much a work in progress and that the Government needs to do more to help.

    Mr Cull says, “The report confirms what we already know in that sea levels around the world have risen by about 20cm in the last century. Further sea level rise is inevitable and this clearly presents challenges for our city. There are no quick and easy answers to the issue. Responding to the impacts of sea level rise requires a collaborative effort for a range of agencies including local and regional councils, central government, social service agencies and the community at large. The PCE report provides the science behind climate change and sea level rise, along with some useful recommendations, to help inform this collaboration and discussion.”
    CLAMS ARE MORE FRICKING INTELLIGENT

    Mr Cull says that more central government resource is needed to deal with the impacts of sea level rise and the PCE report is a positive step in this direction. The PCE report uses Dunedin as one of four case studies illustrating the impacts of sea level rise on New Zealand coastal communities. Of the four, Dunedin faces the biggest and most extensive challenges. The main threat is from rising groundwater in South Dunedin and surrounding area, as groundwater levels are forced up by rising sea levels.

    General Manager Services and Development Simon Pickford says the DCC is already taking steps and began a programme of work in 2010 to address issues around climate change. Key pieces of this work have already been completed. This includes exploring potential protection options for the harbourside and South Dunedin and surrounds, and work around minimum floor levels. Other work – such as plans to investigate what non-protection measures would involve and considering the potential impacts of sea level rise in the proposed Second Generation District Plan – is underway. Further planned work includes community engagement to work through the cost-benefit analysis of options for key areas such as the harbourside and South Dunedin and surrounds. However, Mr Pickford says it is important to note that parts of Dunedin other than just the harbourside and South Dunedin face sea level rise challenges. Further work is therefore needed to understand and plan for the impacts for the whole city.

    “There will be a need for on-going consultation and engagement with communities around the possible responses to sea level rise. This is not just about the directly affected communities but for the city as a whole because the impacts and opportunities presented by sea level rise are city-wide,” Mr Cull says. JESUS CHRIST ALMIGHTY

    █ The PCE report, including maps of affected areas, is available online at http://www.pce.parliament.govt.nz.

    Contact Mayor of Dunedin on 477 4000. DCC Link

    █ Shove a mud tank up their rears. See if they think that feels like climate change.

    The young green witch is causing GROSS INFIRMITY and DRIBBLING in the suited greying little male twerps running this City Council.

  59. Hype O'Thermia

    Green Genie and the Suited Grey Twerps
    P*R*E*S*E*N*T
    The Greatest !!!
    Greater Dunedin All Singing All Prancing S’Hoe-down !!!
    In the Fabulous Fubar !!!!!
    Book now for the “We’re Down The Dunny” Show
    featuring the hit that keeps on hitting,
    “We’re down the dunny, we’re down the dunny
    We’ve got sod-all of what it takes to get along….”

    Book early, remember there’s an election coming.

  60. Elizabeth

    Gloria. Gloria. Gloria.

    ### ODT Online Fri, 20 Nov 2015
    Dunedin mayor wants flood support
    By Carla Green
    A national report on sea-level rise showing thousands of Dunedin homes are at risk sends a stark message, Mayor Dave Cull says. “The part that shook me a little was that Dunedin was by far the most seriously affected centre in the country,” Mr Cull said.
    Read more

    From stage left enter young woman suspect politician with ice pack, wrapped in small towel for the fevered brow.

    [Punctuation. Audience might be nonplussed by the towel.]

    • Hype O'Thermia

      There’s considerable frenzy about *predicted* rise in sea level, latest version. Haven’t seen the figures for actual measured sea level rise.

      Do you think the mayor is excited at the thought that people will now believe the flooding had nothing to do with DCC actions/inactions, and everything to do with not enough people using bicycles festooned with cloth shopping bags?

      • Elizabeth

        Very probably. Each day a new plank to sinking the worth and fortunes of the long-lived South Dunedin suburbs and all who sail in her. Word-bomber Cull d’Isil.

  61. Hype O'Thermia

    Actually I have seen figures for measured sea level rise – on this site, even. But never within the body of reports by sea level rise alarmists / prophets.
    Funny, that.

  62. Elizabeth

    More BS could not possibly pass through Daaave’s brain. I look forward to Hon Bill English cutting Mayor Cull’s hand off.

    ### dunedintv.co.nz Fri, 20 Nov 2015
    Mayor calls on government for help
    The Dunedin City Council is asking central government to step in and help with rising sea levels. A report by the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment shows Dunedin’s one of the most vulnerable areas in the country. And local leaders are calling for immediate action.
    Ch39 Link

    39 Dunedin Television Published on Nov 19, 2015
    Mayor calls on government for help

  63. Hype O'Thermia

    So you think Bill English would require on-site measured proof – not computer models – of sea level actually rising, before pressing government money into Dunedin’s febrile mayoral hand?

  64. Elizabeth

    ### ODT Online Mon, 23 Nov 2015
    Flooding could isolate Mosgiel
    By Shawn McAvinue
    Mosgiel residents being trapped in the township as floodwater rises around them is a real threat and the emergency response plan is weak, a top Taieri police officer says. Clutha-Taieri area response manager Senior Sergeant Al Dickie said if riverbanks surrounding Mosgiel were breached by floodwaters residents could be trapped in the township as every escape route would be blocked.
    Read more

  65. Gurglars

    Herein lies the problem

    https://mail.google.com/mail/mu/mp/756/#tl/Inbox

    You will note a number of items on this video

    1. This group claims 41 million people are marching against climate change?

    2. Barack Obama believes that politicians need to respond to the marchers.

    3. Not a skerrick of evidence of anything.

    This video reminds me of a lemming march or a sheep herd.

    A whole lot of dumb animals following a small number of vociferous dumb but organised animals to oblivion.

  66. Gurglars

    Glug Glug, I should have listened the sea level rise stuff and I might not have drowned at HARWOOD.

    It might be of particular interest that Doctor Johnston of the DCC owns a property at Harwood which is below current sea level (before climate change, global warming or any other bull..it scenario and perhaps all of this crap is about compensation!)

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