DCC Draft Long Term Plan 2015/16 to 2024/25 —CONSULTATION OPEN

DCC Building a great small city Draft LTP 2015-16 to 2024-25 (1)

There is no SMALL CITY in this image.
Guess we haven’t started building yet. When we do it will take consolidated council debt to way over the existing +$600M which, of course, Mayor Liability Cull is already bleakly and ‘creatively’ responsible for.

Dunedin City Council – Media Release
Long Term Plan Consultation Document Unveiled

This item was published on 27 Mar 2015

‘Building a Great Small City’, the consultation document for the DCC’s Long Term Plan (LTP) 2015/16 – 2024/25, has been released.

Mayor of Dunedin Dave Cull says the LTP is designed to enable the Council to examine the bigger picture and set a strategic direction for the city covering the whole range of DCC activities. Now priorities have been proposed, the Council wants to hear from residents.

The consultation document is now available at http://www.dunedin.govt.nz/ltp
Public consultation on the LTP opens on Saturday (today) and closes at 5pm on 28 April. People are encouraged to provide their feedback early and, if possible, use the online form.

A snapshot of what is proposed, presented in a map fold newsletter, will be delivered to every Dunedin household. Once consultation has started, there will be further information on the DCC website and copies of the LTP consultation document will be available at DCC facilities such as libraries and the Customer Services Agency in the Civic Centre. There will also be public workshops and LTP stands in public places and at events, with the opportunity for face-to-face discussion with Councillors. These will be held around the wider city during the consultation period.

For the first time, comments on the DCC Facebook page and tweets to @DnCityCouncil using #LTP will also be considered as feedback.

█ 28.3.15 ODT: Council accepts social media feedback

Mr Cull says, “The LTP allows us to look at the aspirations outlined in our strategy documents and how we should prioritise these over the next 10 years. This means the LTP needs to balance our financial goals, such as debt reduction, and our desire to develop Dunedin to make it a more attractive place to live and do business. Our Financial Strategy imposes a 3% rate increase limit unless there are exceptional circumstances. This is in line with the average 3% ‘cost of living’ increases faced by local government. Under current proposals, an overall 3.8% rate increase is proposed for 2015/16. The exceptional circumstances are that, in addition to our usual inflationary pressures, we have had to provide an extra $1.5 million for the Forsyth Barr Stadium and budget for losing $4.5 million of dividend from Dunedin City Holdings Limited, which owns companies on the DCC’s behalf. We have absorbed some of those costs, but cannot absorb them all. We also need to balance rate limits against a range of new proposals in the LTP which the Council believes are worth investing in. We need public input on these, plus feedback on several other projects that have been included as unfunded items, such as new aquatic facilities for Mosgiel and lighting for the University of Otago Oval.”

Amendments to the Local Government Act have changed the way LTPs are developed and consulted on with the community. Past long term plans have involved first producing a full draft plan which was then put out for public consultation and feedback. Under the new system the DCC is required to produce this consultation document which sets out the issues the city is facing and the options for managing them. Key issues include putting the Stadium on a more achievable financial footing, tackling the city’s ageing infrastructure and addressing low economic growth.

The consultation period will be followed by hearings and deliberations in May and a final LTP will be adopted by the Council in June.

A range of supporting documents and an online submission form will be available at http://www.dunedin.govt.nz/ltp from 7am on Saturday (today).

Contact Dave Cull Mayor of Dunedin on 477 4000. DCC Link

Related Posts and Comments:
25.3.15 DCC Long Term Plan: Green-dyed chickens home to roost
24.3.15 Noble property subdivision —DELTA
23.3.15 Noble property subdivision: “Denials suggest that we have not learned.”
12.3.15 Snaky Stedman —not answering … questions ratepayers must ask
4.3.15 DCC internal audits
20.2.15 Audit NZ making up for previous huge inadequacies over DCC books ?
21.1.15 Dunedin City Council to set rates WAY ABOVE….
14.1.15 DCC Draft Long Term Plan: more inanity from Cull’s crew pending
18.12.14 DCC: Deloitte report released on Citifleet #whitewash
21.11.14 Stadium Review: Mayor Cull exposed
19.11.14 Forsyth Barr Stadium Review
3.11.14 DCC: What happened to $20 million cash on hand? #LGOIMA
31.10.14 Whaleoil on “dodgy ratbag local body politicians” —just like ours at DCC
28.5.14 DCC: Audit and risk subcommittee
31.3.14 Audit services to (paying) local bodies #FAIL ● AuditNZ … LynProvost
26.2.14 DCC: New audit and risk subcommittee a little too late !!

Posted by Elizabeth Kerr

*Image source: DCC

57 Comments

Filed under Business, DCC, DCHL, DCTL, Delta, Democracy, Design, DVL, DVML, Economics, Enterprise Dunedin, Geography, Heritage, Highlanders, LGNZ, Museums, Name, New Zealand, NZRU, ORFU, People, Politics, Project management, Stadiums, Urban design, What stadium

57 responses to “DCC Draft Long Term Plan 2015/16 to 2024/25 —CONSULTATION OPEN

  1. Elizabeth

    ### dunedintv.co.nz April 1, 2015 – 7:02pm
    Your word on submitting feedback for the DCC long term plan
    The Dunedin City Council is asking for public feedback on its draft long term plan, which sets out rates and budgets for the next ten years. Residents have until the end of the month to submit feedback. So with that in mind, the 39 Dunedin News Word on the Street team went to the CBD to ask people if they’ll have their say on the plan.
    Video

  2. Hype O'Thermia

    The number of times I did my duty… “best” result was smartypants dissing by Michael Guest, this is before the world and its wife were made fully aware of the cut of his jib, only parts of which had been known to assorted locals for some time so at that stage he was basking in the sun that shone out of his undergarments.
    When I say “best” I mean at least for a few minutes one councillor showed awareness that I had presented anything.
    Overall it was a waste of time. The council and DCC managers do what they’ve decided to do. We were irrelevant that year and the years before and the years after, and particularly irrelevant when we tried to stop the monster FAIL now known as the Fubar Stadium. Fish gotta swim, birds gotta fly, councils gotta pretend they give a flying fish for the opinions of their mug punters, the ratepayers who are forced to stump up for their fantasies and far-cups.

    • Elizabeth

      Didn’t write a submission last year, felt immediately like I could breathe again and do pole vaulting effortlessly.
      The patronising ‘individualised’ DCC letters in reply to submissions send me suicidal.

  3. Hype O'Thermia

    They don’t give a toss what we want. It’s just a way of keeping people busy with something that has the appearance that it makes a genuine contribution, but it’s make-work, like whitewashing the stones around parade ground, or shifting a pile of dirt from one place to another, only to shovel and barrow it back again next day.
    I still vote. If it gets more pointless there’s still the option of turning up at the polling booth and writing “none of these oxygen thieves” on the ballot paper, so as not to be counted as a “too lazy to vote” type: I want to be filed under A for Angry!

  4. Peter

    The council ‘consults’ because legally it has to, but it doesn’t follow that it wants to or that it doesn’t have to do any more than go through the motions. It doesn’t even have to listen to what might be a majority position.
    Basically, how it works is that those who apply enough pressure get what they want. You don’t even have to front up, but can work behind the scenes.
    I am now so totally cynical about ‘consultation’. I’d probably get more satisfaction from a consultation by a palm reader or a crystals healer.

    • Hype O'Thermia

      If they want to know what people think they can read this site, and the ODT paper and online comments. Enough of these requests to waste more of our time! They’re already wasting our money. What next, pressure to donate corneas and kidneys to councillors and senior DCC staff?

  5. Peter

    Hype. More like, donating balls. Some need them. Preferably in duplicate.

  6. Calvin Oaten

    Don’t know if this is the right thread but recently Cr Whiley wrote a letter to the ODT extolling the activities of the conference organisers and their claims of a growth curve since the facilities upgrade. I then wrote a response to those claims which the ODT in its wisdom chose not to publish. I copy it here for what it is worth:

    I was interested in Cr Andrew Whiley’s 7th April ODT letter that “Dunedin’s conference business is on a growth curve with domestic delegates spending approximately $482 per day, totalling approximately $17.5 million per annum.” Great! I thought at first, then I wondered where those figures came from. Surely, they are authenticated by factual data. But then I remember being down this track before, many times.

    In November 2007 then ‘Tourism Dunedin’ CEO Jan Hindson in her report to the DCC Economic Development committee expressed concern that Dunedin was missing out on conferences. Due, she says, to lack of “appropriate” facilities. However, the city hosted a conference which attracted 482 visitors, with each person spending, on average $871 during their stay. Moving to May 2008 then general manager, strategy and development, Kate Styles, claimed that since 2003 when the Conference Centre was first mooted, “there had been changes in the conference market in New Zealand, with a shift from large (400+ delegates) to a greater number of small to medium sized conferences. It was estimated there would be an extra 16.5 conferenceswith an extra 4,400 delegates spending on average $657 per day. This would generate around $6.3 million pa of economic activity for the city.

    Unfortunately what was forgotten was that in 2004 a report by Ernst & Young postulated that a conference of 400 people, each spending $400 per day would generate a direct spend of some $448,000. Then staff conducted a survey of the 2004 NZ Women’s Institute annual conference that showed in fact the spend was just $172.54 per day including accommodation.

    Now, with the $50 million upgrade of the Conference Centre completed, based on an estimated 36 conferences per annum we see the results. “City loses travellers’ conference”, and Cr Whiley repeating the same ‘mantra’ as of old. When will it ever end?

  7. Elizabeth

    While DVML continues to get rates handouts after rates handout…. for poor performance and a hollow shell for MOST DAYS per year, oh look @@!!!

    A summary of the proposal said it was estimated to save the city $7605 in the 2015-16 year and $12,583 in following years.

    ### ODT Online Thu, 16 Apr 2015
    City of Literature mayor defends library cut
    By Vaughan Elder
    Dunedin Mayor Dave Cull has defended a proposal to cut access to part of the central library on Sundays. This comes after a concerned resident, who did not want to be named, said the proposal to no longer open the library’s heritage collections on Sundays was ”ironic” given the city had just gained Unesco Creative City of Literature status.
    Read more

  8. Elizabeth

    Detailed survey of library users required….

    Great comment at ODT Online:
    (reproduced in full in the public interest)

    Better information required for decisions
    Submitted by shefrogers on Thu, 16/04/2015 – 2:14pm.

    The figure of 32 users of the Heritage Collections on one Sunday needs to be put into a larger context of usage. I requested figures from the library and was given the following average number for users on each day during the three weeks of the survey (1–21 September 2014)

    Monday – 64
    Tuesday – 70
    Wednesday – 43
    Thursday – 54
    Friday – 49
    Saturday – 32
    Sunday – 32

    Furthermore, these numbers need to be correlated with the opening hours of the Heritage Collections, which are 9:30am–8:00pm Mon-Fri and 11am–4pm Sat-Sun. The average for a weekday opening of 10.5 hours is 56, to which 32 people for a 5-hour period on Sunday compares favourably. If one really wished simply to shave a certain number of hours off the staffing bill, the Collections should probably be closed on Wednesday morning.

    What these numbers do not show is whether the users on Saturday or Sunday are people who could not otherwise visit the Collections on a weekday due to work or family commitments. Saturday may not be a lot better for most parents. I would submit that many of the Sunday users may well be people who will not be able to use the service at all if it closes on Sunday. But the only way to determine this would be to conduct a more detailed survey and ask users.

    I’d like to think that our City Council staff and elected representatives would demand more thorough analysis of the facts before making decisions one way or the other about all matters. The ODT could also do better by asking some more detailed questions. This is not the sort of headline I want to see in the ODT to promote Dunedin’s status as a City of Literature and I urge both councillors and reporters to lift their game.

    Shef Rogers
    Co-Director, University of Otago Centre for the Book

    • Elizabeth

      And yet DCC is not cutting DVML’s budgets, DCC supports +$20M losses per annum for the stadium at RATEPAYER expense.

      The cuts came as the council had an “unrelenting focus on finding savings”.

      ### ODT Online Tue, 21 Apr 2015
      Mayor seeks feedback on library spending
      By Vaughan Elder
      Dunedin Mayor Dave Cull has reservations about a plan to cut the amount the city council spends on books so soon after the city gained Unesco Creative City of Literature status. The plan to cut $128,000 from the amount the city spends on library collections was brought to the Otago Daily Times’ attention by Dunedin Public Libraries Association president Merle van der Klundert after a plan to close the central library’s heritage collections on Sundays was revealed last week.
      Read more

      ****

      Comment at ODT Online:

      Library spending
      Submitted by Barnaby on Tue, 21/04/2015 – 4:30pm.

      When one ponders the hundreds of millions squandered by the Cull and previous Chin administrations on ludicrous projects such as the debt funded $266m stadium costing over $20m pa, the $3.5m lost on the Carisbrook fiasco, the Settlers’ Museum and Town Hall upgrades at $50m each, the $200,000 of ratepayers’ money wasted on the failed foolish 28 storey hotel, the millions on cycleways etc etc, why are cost savings on the library even being considered? It is one of the most sensible facilities a city could and should have.
      My family and friends find it very frustrating that the library is so under resourced and as a result struggles both in terms of products and the hours it stays open. The current opening hours make it difficult for the public to gain access as it shuts about the same time as most businesses. It has extremely short hours at the weekends, shutting at 4pm. It should be kept open during the evenings, until say 8pm. It would likely be utilised far more at weekends with extended hours.
      We have seen eye-watering sums of ratepayers’ funds siphoned off for spectator and professional sport and a rather ill-conceived cycleway, simply because it is seen as politically correct, if not practical. A community that reads is a better community than one that doesn’t. The dumbing down continues.

      ****

      THE STADIUM, opportunity costs……….

      It is undeniable money is in short supply. This became apparent soon after $500 million was recently spent on a local light entertainment venue.

      ### ODT Online Tue, 21 Apr 2015
      ‘First cut’ on road to rock bottom
      By Victor Billot
      OPINION Why bother with libraries even if you are an international City of Literature?
      There has been some unfortunate confusion about the proposal to reduce opening hours in certain parts of the Dunedin Public Library. Some have complained this does not sit well with Dunedin recently being awarded the international status of City of Literature. But in the tradition of the great authors, our council has rightly asked us to suspend our disbelief and enter into the world of the imagination. There is no reason a City of Literature needs actual libraries.
      Read more

  9. Elizabeth

    Unabridged to ODT Online:

    Rather cuts to DVML
    Submitted by ej kerr on Thu, 16/04/2015 – 3:17pm.

    What a pathetic DCC move, supported by the flipping mayor (!), to cut public access to research, rare book and heritage holdings at the Central Library – and for absolutely peanut cost savings. This, while the stadium soaks up +$20 million per annum (year in year out ad infinitum) of ratepayer funds to keep the stupid doors open. Dunedin City Council is a laughing stock – boorish and unscrupulous, headed by fools.

    Abridged: http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/339231/city-literature-mayor-defends-library-cut#comment-70435

  10. Peter

    This pitiful attempt at cost cutting shows how cock-eyed the whole thing is. The council refused to insist on getting $26,000 from the ORFU, which they stole at the Black Tie Dinner…’to put into their pot’. Now they bludgeon money from people who want to go to the library to expand their minds.
    The council, in toto, should be ashamed of themselves.

  11. Calvin Oaten

    Peter, don’t you mean ‘the council in Toitu’? In a word the council is ‘up the creek without a paddle’.

  12. Hype O'Thermia

    No Calvin: it’s “the council in tutae”.

  13. Peter

    The first year of $7000 savings would already be savaged by DVML paying for those promoters who came over for the Rod Stewart concert. Free flights. Free accommodation. Free meals. Free booze. Free tickets. As one of the hosts in the ODT stand, did Nick Smith pay his way? Doubt it.

  14. Rob Hamlin

    Remember we are the ‘City of (locked-up) literature’!

  15. Calvin Oaten

    Peter: ‘Tut tut’, show a bit of respect. Or did you mean ‘tutu’? If so I can just see them all in short projecting skirts. The blokes of course in skin hugging tights. There wouldn’t be many of those with a meaningful bulge, except for one who is practised in these things.

  16. Elizabeth

    ### dunedintv.co.nz April 17, 2015 – 6:45pm
    DCC working on reducing emissions
    The Dunedin City Council is working on a plan to reduce the emissions that it manages. It’s responsible for emissions from landfill and those associated with the city’s electricity supply. The council’s also trying to reduce emissions from its other operations. Most of the city’s emissions come from landfill, totalling about 75%. And emissions associated with electricity supply are the city’s second largest. The council, as the organisation responsible for Dunedin’s electricity supply, is one of the top 200 electricity users in the country.
    Ch39 Link [no video available]

  17. Elizabeth

    Public submissions on the draft (ten year) DCC Long Term Plan are due by 5pm tomorrow, Tuesday 28 April 2015.

    DENSE AND OBSCURE
    The full set of draft LTP documents/strategies set out at http://www.dunedin.govt.nz/ltp are a COMPLETE NIGHTMARE to plough through for the average lay person(s). The LTP has never been so bad – it’s not all down to change of requirement from Central Government. The LTP is FUBAR.

    The supporting documents are riddled with inaccuracies, lies, and slants. The Chief Executive has not been through with her red reality pen to delete staff excess or emphatic over-statement.

    If we don’t make submissions – the gospel will go down according to Dog [staff make-work projects together with poor layout and control of strategy, finance and budgets – altogether hideous, compounding council debt and rates increases].

    How can any councillor approach the LTP and in all honesty hope to understand it line by line – to provide relief to their constituent ratepayers and residents?

    There is no relief – in overview, the Dunedin City Council is in deep schtook. We are being HIT.

    Where is the closest bonfire.
    Throw on Cull the short guy, and all the paper.

  18. Hype O'Thermia

    Cull the Mayor.
    Verb not noun.

  19. Elizabeth

    More people with their hands out. Boring. BS.

    ### ODT Online Tue, 28 Apr 2015
    Funding needed for arts strategy
    By Vaughan Elder on
    Dunedin City Council staff have indicated a strategy aimed at boosting arts and culture in the city will require fresh funding. Councillors will today vote on whether to adopt a final arts and culture strategy, following public consultation on a draft strategy last year.
    Read more

    Report – Council – 28/04/2015 (PDF, 1.2 MB)
    Ara Toi Ōtepoti – Our Creative Future: Final Version of the Arts and Culture Strategy and Initial Actions for Adoption

    • Hype O'Thermia

      There seems to be a never-ending procession of demands for funding for “strategies”. Seldom can I see what value “strategists” will add. Trotting around talking about what a Good Thing it is to have arts and culture? Posters, guff in the letterbox?
      The highly effectual Margarita Robertson got it right when she ‘said Dunedin had a laid-back feel, yet was alive with ”culture and individualism”’.
      Artists and cultural types are doin’ it for themselves. It wouldn’t hurt if strategy money went towards unblocking some of the barriers that allow various DCC functionaries, the ones descended from a long line of clipboarders, to nix interesting endeavours with “You can’t do that there ‘ere, there’s a Regulation!”

  20. Elizabeth

    ### ODT Online Tue, 28 Apr 2015
    Sides square off ahead of DCC vote
    By Vaughan Elder
    Both sides of the divestment debate are warning of the consequences if they do not get their way when the Dunedin City Council votes whether to dump fossil fuel investments today. ProGas Otago says voting in favour of dumping fossil fuels would send the wrong message to oil and gas companies when it came to investing in Dunedin, while Oil Free Otago says Dunedin would be a ”laughing stock” if it turned back on divestment now.
    Read more

    Report – Council – 28/04/2015 (PDF, 1.0 MB)
    Updated Statement of Investment Policy and Objectives for Socially Responsible Investing

  21. Hype O'Thermia

    ‘Dunedin would be a ”laughing stock” if it turned back on divestment now’ – harden up! This is the city that keeps on pumping money into the Fubar Stadium that the current mayor eloquently pointed out, in detail, at a public meeting, would be a ruinous mistake.
    Embarrassed, us? Our colours are blue, gold, and red-face, a wee foot-stamp by anti-oilers won’t make things any worse.

    • Mick

      Oil Free Otago says Dunedin would be a ”laughing stock” if it turned back on divestment now.
      It (the DCC) has already made itself a laughing stock over just about everything it is involved with. So …………………..what’s new/?

  22. Calvin Oaten

    If councillors did any due diligence on the current state of the oil industry they would realise that by divesting of the Waipori Fund from that industry that it would be simply p…..g against the wind and counter productive as well.
    The fact of the matter is that technology has turned the whole industry on its head in just the last five years. Oil/ gas as a source of energy is now assured for at least 100 years at today’s rate of consumption.It has shifted the geopolitics position dramatically to the point where the USA is now the world’s largest reservoir of the stuff by far.
    If our councillors are not aware of this fact then they are not worth their weight in salt let alone due a 9% pay increase.

  23. Elizabeth

    ### ODT Online Wed, 29 Apr 2015
    DCC quitting its fossil fuel shares
    By Vaughan Elder
    The Dunedin City Council has voted in favour of divesting its shares in fossil fuel extraction companies by the slimmest of margins. The vote yesterday meant the council would also no longer invest in tobacco, arms, gambling and pornography, but it was the issue of whether to include fossil fuels which prompted the most vigorous debate.
    Read more

    The Votes (8 : 7)
    For: Cull, Staynes, Benson-Pope, Hawkins, MacTavish, Peat, Thomson, Wilson
    Against: Bezett, Calvert, Hall, Lord, Noone, Vandervis, Whiley

    • Mick

      At least we know (if we didn’t already) who the ‘useful idiots’ are. But in this context I would even question the word ‘useful’.

      • Elizabeth

        Ticket holding Councillors, ‘for’ local Business supposedly, while they as DCC whip small business every other which way.

    • Mick

      According to the Financial Times, for the last 20 years fossil fuel use has been growing at almost exactly seven times the rate of non-carbon forms of energy. The 40% increase in global energy use has allowed the number of middle-class people in the world, ie those with white goods in their homes, to double to 3B. BP estimate a further increase in energy use by 40% over the next 20 years as the global middle class reaches 5B, half of that increase in and around India. Fully seven-eigths of that growth will be based on fossil fuels. Alan Rushbridger (of the Guardian) at whose altar green-coloured Jinty and halfwit Dave seems to worship should get real.

      The ‘greens’ would do better by encouraging work on new alternative energy technologies that will actually power the megacities where half the people will live by 2050, and where the current renewable energy systems have precisely nothing to offer. Above all patience and pragmatism will be the key.

      As for the DCC – all it has succeeded in doing is interfere with and risk prudent economic management at the expense of the ratepayer for the sake of its half baked and ill defined ‘morality’.

      {Mick, where you cite other publications, please supply available link(s) by copying and pasting the url from your browser’s address form into your comment. Thanks. -Eds}

  24. Cars

    One thing is certain.

    Putting this lot in charge of public money is akin to placing a rabbit in charge of a lettuce.

  25. Elizabeth

    This is what happens when Daaave thinks Minty is a bit of alright —woops, all right.

    ### ODT Online Thu, 30 Apr 2015
    DCC fossil fuel divestment decision raises row
    By Vaughan Elder
    Dunedin based National Party list MP Michael Woodhouse has slammed the Dunedin City Council’s decision to dump fossil fuel investments, as a row erupts over the move. Mr Woodhouse, who is also Immigration Minister, and Dunedin Mayor Dave Cull are accusing each other of being ”naive” over whether divestment could influence whether oil and gas companies base their operations in the city.
    Read more

    • Peter

      In actual fact Cull,in his usual style,plays both sides. He supports divestment in fossil fuels on the one hand, but welcomes Anardarko and Shell to set up base here if they choose to do so.
      The companies concerned make no comment and say it is up to Dunedin.They will do what suits them best with the blessing of Dave Cull and the government.
      Cull and Woodhouse are posturing.

    • Elizabeth

      A useless editorial, c’mon ODT. Yes, we know there’s a local body election coming up, never too soon given the events of last week at DCC and the dreadful high-pitched voice of Minty that drones on to ill effect. Horrid.

      ### ODT Online Sat, 2 May 2015
      Editorial: Divestment: democracy in action
      OPINION When it came to the debate and vote this week on the Dunedin City Council divesting shares in fossil fuel extraction companies (as well as tobacco, arms, gambling and pornography), both ”sides” claimed the public was on their side.
      Read more

      • Hype O'Thermia

        Useless? Hmmm. I thought it was a careful dollar-each-way, with an interesting amount of “oh but we’re definitely not being anti-green” musings over the various difficulties to be overcome on the road to becoming the world’s leading planet-saver.

        • Elizabeth

          Yes, useless in that vein of useless.

        • Calvin Oaten

          Reading today’s front page of the ODT I am off to the TAB to place a substantial wager on the Mosgiel Poll going ahead. Tipster Dave just gave me the nudge nudge wink that its going to be a good bet that it will be passed, funded by debt as is all good things. The locals coming up with half — $7.5m — was just part of the training schedule.

      • Mick

        Elizabeth
        May 4, 2015 at 1:50 am
        A useless editorial, c’mon ODT. Yes, ODT Online Sat, 2 May 2015
        Editorial: Divestment: democracy in action

        I agree Elizabeth. Useless and muddled.
        For example it says:-
        “Climate change is the issue of the age, an impending and real threat to human existence and everything possible must be done to keep oil, gas and coal in the ground rather than adding to CO2 concentrations and the cooking of the planet.”

        It is a NON ISSUE of the age. What evidence does the ODT editor present that we should keep fossil fuels in the ground? None. Cooking the planet? Emotive clap trap.

        Then it says:-
        “Mayor Dave Cull has also made the point the United Nations Framework Convention on climate change, to which New Zealand is a signatory, recently said it supported divestment.”

        It might have said that but the UNFCC is not a body that Dave Cull should follow blindly because it is not his job to do that. It is the job of the government of NZ to consider (despite what Agenda 21 of the UN Rio Conference recommended).

        Furthermore:-
        The overall umbrella and processes of the UNFCCC and the adopted Kyoto Protocol have been criticised as not having achieved its stated goals of reducing the emission of carbon dioxide.
        The failure to achieve meaningful progress and reach effective-Co2 reducing-policy treaties among the parties over the past eighteen years has driven some countries like the United States to never ratify the UNFCCC’s largest body of work — the Kyoto Protocol. The treaty didn’t cover developing countries that now include the largest Co2 emitters. The measures recommended or adopted to limit Co2 could never be effective in any case so it is an exercise in futility.
        One has to ask why these major emitters of Co2 continue to emit this gas. Could it be because they realise that it has never been demonstrated that Co2 has any effect on the climate and that to reduce their emissions would be damaging their own economies and their own citizens wellbeing? That would be compelling enough.

        Yet this is in effect what our stupid Mayor is attempting to do. That is to endanger our own economy and the wellbeing of its citizens – the very people who pay his wages.
        So what on earth does Dave Cull or the even more deluded Jinty MacTavish imagine they would achieve by muddling on about with ethics and moreover, what on earth is the ODT editorial on about?

        It then dabbles in ethical issues and says:-
        “One of the issues with ethical policies is where to draw the line.”

        There is one simple question to ask. Whose ethics? The answer is keep out of this and stick to your knitting.

        • Jacob

          Calvin. When you place your bets on the pool, make sure you only back for a place. After reading the ODT article on submissions, it would appear that the trust has been as deceitful as ever.
          Remember they claimed that they had over 2000 supporters to their online survey.
          Well when the push comes to shove, it would appear that only 1030 have made submissions to the LTP, and that includes those apposed to the pool.
          What has happened to the other 1000+ that they claimed to have the support for the pool. Just like the $7.5 million they claim that the Mosgiel community are supposed to be fronting up with. In both cases, the pool support and the community money they claim, does not stack up. Because they are unable to back up their claims. Just cheap talk and deceitful, a copy of the stadium debacle all over again.

        • Hype O'Thermia

          Jacob, were you as puzzled as I was? Reported “only 1030 have made submissions to the LTP, and that includes those apposed to the pool”. Also reported, of those whose submissions included mention of the pool NOBODY thought to keep a tally of how many were for, how many against.

          Skim-reading enough to count mentions of the pool must have been adequate to observe whether they were pro or anti. A sheet of paper divided into 3 columns and a crayon is all it would have taken. Tick pro column, tick anti column. Third column is for the ones that discuss points both for and against, it may take more careful reading to see if those writers have concluded overall that it’s sensible or another unnecessary rates burden.

          Having ticked coelumns, count the numbers of ticks in pro and anti columns. It’s OK if they take longer to carefully evaluate the Column 3s.

          What’s not OK is counting all mentions of the pool as if they say “Great! We’ve got the numbers!”

          How hard is it to be “transparent”, aka honest?
          Remember when Daave was big on transparency? Come on, your short term memory’s not that bad is it?
          Not asking for an expert statistician here, just ordinary sense and competence.

        • Calvin Oaten

          Mick, I put a letter to the ODT on the divestment nonsense. It got the ‘thanks but no thanks response. Here it is.

          “It was interesting to read that a staff-developed, “socially responsible policy”, which governs the council’s $82.5 million Waipori Fund, ended up passing, with seven councillors and Dunedin mayor Dave Cull in favour and seven councillors against. The issue in contention was that of divesting in fossil fuels investments. Cr Jinty MacTavish has been one of the strongest advocates of dumping fossil fuels, claiming people across the globe had taken note that the Dunedin City Council was a world leader on divestment and urged other councillors to formalise the policy. One would ask was that claim factual or anecdotal? If correct, what number of people across the globe took note? Two key points of note I would have thought.

          Let’s look at the position in reality. If by carrying out this move is this likely to affect or impress the oil/gas industry, other than to annoy? Is it likely to affect any decision by oil/gas prospecting companies to using Dunedin’s facilities whilst assessing the local oceans, or involved in drilling and extracting either product? Mayor Cull says no, but that is a moot opinion. Cr Richard Thomson says an opinion that the policy to divest would have cost the council about $500,000 a year or $7.5m had it been in place over the 13 years from the year 2000 — was not a valid way of measuring how the fund would perform in future if an ethical policy was adopted — and he voted for the divestment.

          So what is the current position of the industry, and can/should it be stopped? Although all the signs were that the days of oil/gas were effectively numbered as supplies ran out, recent technological developments over just the last five years in drilling and extraction procedures, have brought to light the fact that there has been a monumental shift in both supplies, costs and geo political fortunes. The USA has shifted from being the biggest importer of its energy needs to become the world’s number one oil/gas producer, even surpassing Saudi Arabia. Further, its costs have plummeted to the point where it is about to become a major exporter. Proven accessible reserves around the world are now suffice at present consumption levels to last at least one hundred years. All because of modern technological developments, and we can rest assured that will continue.

          In light of these developments how likely is it that society will cease using? Coal, of course, has the problem of pollution, a health hazard which will encourage the switch to gas or nuclear. Oil has such a diverse impact on all manner of modern living that its non use would take us all back to the eighteenth century, where I doubt anyone would wish to be. So on balance this move looks to be the actions of a few ‘zealots’ and as is often the case ’zealots’ fail to consider the bigger picture and consider the needs or aspirations of others. It could be that this move is ill considered. No doubt in my mind but the citizens of Dunedin will be the poorer in more ways than one if and when this policy is implemented.

  26. Trudy

    It would appear that the Green Taliban are well established in Dunedin

  27. Elizabeth

    Trudy, see Brian Miller’s letter and the council’s GT reply….
    Note ODT’s selected bible quote (care of Phil Somerville).

    ODT 30.4.15 (page 12)
    ODT 30.4.15 Letter to editor Miller (page 12) 1[click to enlarge]

    • Mick

      Elizabeth check out the clipping you inserted above!
      God indeed works in mysterious ways – he even manages to get his quote under Ms Pinfold’s pompous and hubristic response to Brian Miller. See below:

      In answer to Brian Miller’s questioning over Hospital meals Group Manager community and planning Nicola Pinfold replies:

      The DCC is addressing the retention of productive land and protection of high-class soils through the Second Generation District Plan. The DCC is also undertaking a food resilience project to identify ways to enable Dunedin to become a ‘food resilient city’.

      Bible Reading: The Mighty One, God the Lord, speaks and summonses the earth.
      -Psalms 50.1

  28. Elizabeth

    Some pressure, perhaps, applied to DCC via Audit NZ (I hear) to include the DREADFUL SLANT survey questions (1 – 16b) and the fixed reply options in the Online Submission form for the Draft LTP.

    I refused to answer any. Ignored the lot. Presented without sufficient context and information provided. Another way for Council Staff and Greater Dunedin Councillors to load the dice for PET PROJECTS, to increase Council DEBT and HIKE Rates; to impoverish vulnerable people the Council is supposed to be looking after.

    • Hype O'Thermia

      Be reasonable, Elizabeth. Without “fixed reply options” the people are liable to say what they want for their city, instead of what is wanted by those, whether elected and salaried, who have firm views on what they want to inflict on us and how much they want to cost us for these blessings. Can’t have the democratic process taken to ridiculous extents such as common people’s opinions being taken into account more than once every 3 years.

      • Elizabeth

        I wonder if any one kept a copy of the questions and fixed answers that DCC supplied ?
        We should publish them here to invite REAL replies.
        If not, I will ask DCC for a copy.

        • Hype O'Thermia

          Is our District Plan
          (a) good
          (b) excellent
          (c) fan-bloody-tabulous dahhlings
          (d) oarsome dude
          (e) so brilliant I wet myself with excitement
          (f) all the above

        • Elizabeth

          Yeah. I couldn’t answer that one.

        • Diane Yeldon

          Please do that. Because I never made a submission. Asked how to do it online and DCC never got back to me. I don ‘t think the numbers they got can be considered representative. I wonder if they should do some kind of poll on each big spending proposal. Like the Taieri Aquatic Facility – calling it a ‘pool’ minimizes it rather.

  29. Simon

    Why would the DCC send a letter to the DHB in support of suppliers in areas such as Nelson, Marlborough, Southland and East Cape. When they can not look after their own ?

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