ODT puffery for stadium rousing ?

The banner at today’s ODT Online home page

ODT 22.11.14 Tuning up the DCC (screenshot bidrose) 1

Received, a snapshot at 11:14 a.m. (to read the article get the latest budgie cage liner full of advertising with not much else EXCEPT an exclusive interview)

ODT 22.11.14 Tuning up the DCC (article image bidrose) 1

Oh Dear Times
Sue Bidrose, ‘I’ve always said I just don’t want to work for someone who’s not as good as me’.

Alternative text, just an observation
From King James Bible, Psalms 8:2, “Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength”.

Updated post 23.11.14 at 10:47 a.m.
● Read the interview (Sunday release) at ODT Online

The completely under-researched yet highly threshed and winnowed
Fubar Stadium Review released on Thursday 20 November will be tabled at Monday’s Extraordinary Council Meeting (Edinburgh Room, Municipal Chambers at 1:00 PM).

████ Download: Stadium Review Nov v 15 (585 KB, DOC)

As to timing of review and puffery, coincidence?

ODT used the same new face the day before to sell the ‘Stadium in the black’ message (see Friday’s front page graphic)

ODT 21.11.14 Stadium in the black - front page1

Anything for tenure. The motorbike makes her one of the boys, and the girls. This popularity farce-triumph(ant) is costing ratepayers +$20million pa.

The newspaper can’t distract from an extremely inadequate Stadium Review by throwing us lines about a recreational biker’s “life, job and sleepless nights”. There’s a public excluded Chief Executive Appraisal and Appointment Committee meeting at the Mayor’s Office on Monday 8 December, 8:00 AM.

Related Post and Comments:
21.11.14 Stadium Review: Mayor Cull exposed
20.11.14 Forsyth Barr Stadium Review

Posted by Elizabeth Kerr


Filed under Architecture, Business, Carisbrook, Construction, DCC, DCHL, DCTL, Delta, Democracy, Design, DVL, DVML, Economics, Enterprise Dunedin, Highlanders, Hot air, Media, Name, New Zealand, NZRU, ORC, ORFU, People, Pics, Politics, Project management, Property, Site, Sport, Stadiums, STS, Urban design

47 responses to “ODT puffery for stadium rousing ?

  1. Elizabeth

    ODT link to Chris Morris interview with Sue Bidrose added to post.

  2. “I’ve always said, I just don’t want to work for anyone who’s not as good as me.” Would she be happy working for someone who’s better than her?
    Now there is a conundrum that ought to make “sideshow Dave” blush with chagrin. Would he see that as “I am not as good as her” or would it be “I am better than her”? Either way he is on a hiding to nothing. If she is better than him he is a loser. If he is better than her, then he has a lesser CEO. Which is it to be? She rides a Triumph-ant motor bike in leathers and state of the art helmet. He rides a pedal pusher cycle in lycra and fluorescent jacket topped off with a silly hat. Wow! decisions.

  3. Elizabeth

    I would like to have read Sue Bidrose’s draft Stadium Review before Graham Crombie and the politicians shredded it. But was it any good then?!

  4. “Would she be happy working for someone who’s better than her?” Calvin, Sue Bidrose appears to have enjoyed working under Paul Orders and learning from him. I don’t think this is relevant, however, to CEO’s employment status vis-a-vis the Mayor.

    Many intelligent capable people get great satisfaction from work with “differently-abled”. Their challenge is to help their “clients” to achieve their goals, giving as much freedom as appropriate considering each individual’s level of competence, and kindly guiding them towards activities at which they can experience success and avoid danger. Where the client has access to money, and enough self-management skills to insist on having their own way though not the ability to make sensible decisions, there is a limit to what the helper or caregiver can do since they do not have the right to use physical force, or confiscate the client’s money and phone or other methods to enforce compliance. Even when the situation has been clearly explained and certain limits agreed to by the client, if he breaks the rules the caregiver is constrained in what actions can be taken.

  5. Elizabeth

    This post on Stuff news article mentioned in the Sue Bidrose interview —kinda odd getting upset by that. Maybe cumulative upset had ‘set in’ with the whole Citifleet debacle. https://dunedinstadium.wordpress.com/2014/09/03/stuff-dunedin-council-ceo-wont-resign/

    Not sure why in the ODT piece there’s this continuing claim by the chief executive that she ‘discovered’ (via a manager, probably Grant McKenzie?) the Citifleet fraud. Cr Lee Vandervis had been on it before Paul Orders started in his job and as we know Paul didn’t do the required follow up to commence an investigation. More like it was ‘uncovered’ by the chief executive.

  6. Anonymous

    Few understand what all this bullshit means but most know they are getting buggered and the Oddity appears to be helping them do it. That double speak reporting in Friday’s “stadium news” had at least one of their loyal subscribers scratching their head wondering WTF. I think the DCC + ODT affair will conceal a major rates rise in a similar manner that Aucklanders were shafted.

  7. Elizabeth

    ODT fails to properly critique the glaring shortcomings and omissions of the Stadium Review and the make up of the so-called review committee. Today’s editorial is light and deeply unsatisfying, and generally trite. The support for Sue Bidrose is no surprise but it fails to be substantiated as anything more than gloss. We have always said ODT struggles with numbers and financial analysis. If DCC supplies the slant, the newspaper invariably reproduces it. Here again.


    • This situation surrounding the Stadium Review is so dire that it required a ‘root and branch’ approach to the restructuring and future management of the facilities.

      It was undertaken by a council-appointed panel comprising Dr Bidrose and council group chief financial officer Grant McKenzie, Dunedin City Holdings Ltd. chairman Graham Crombie, DVML and Dunedin Venues Ltd chairman Sir John Hansen, and DVML chief executive Terry Davies.

      To have been populated by the above people ensured that a ‘root and branch’ approach would not happen. While these people should have been interviewed as part of the review, it needed to be independent. It wasn’t and most of these were part of the problem.

      adj 1. on a large scale or without discrimination; wholesale: root-and-branch reforms.
      adv 2. entirely; completely; utterly: Brazil needs reform root and branch.
      Collins English Dictionary -Eds}

  8. Rob Hamlin

    And now have a read of this….


    I would be very surprised if Football South raised another penny – Why would they?

    Sigh – As a ratepayer I think that I will have to install a biting zip on my pocket to deal with Dave Cull’s constant ‘reaching in’ on behalf of his pro sports mates.

    9,000 will come to New Zealand to watch this tournament according to estimates, which I presume will be inflated (sorry ‘ambitious’) – and how many will eventually reach Dunedin?

  9. Elizabeth

    My stars today:
    The day will require boldness. By following your internal urges, you’ll wind up making people laugh, righting wrongs and putting something into the world that wouldn’t be there without you.

    Dear god, more lack of alignment in the celestial bodies.

    [Extraordinary Council Meeting at 1pm, (the undersized) Edinburgh Room, Municipal Chambers]

  10. Elizabeth

    Extraordinary Council Meeting a damp squib forum-of-snow-job-agreement from beginning to end. Not an independent thought except for Cr Vandervis who is already known for this.

    In discussion, Kate Wilson did a double-blind but having also moved on just a tiny imperceptible step from the minute before – to make the stadium work, in solidarity with Daaaave, Staynesy, Thomo, Lordie, Noonie, Whiley, Peater, Bezell, Hills et al, in support of the Item 7 FUBAR (in short, US war-derived slang for fucked up beyond all recognition) Stadium Review.

    Clearly, some tight and steamy off-the-record relations between all Councillors who don’t have surnames starting with the initial V, in the short number of days since release of the Review. Somehow they all know high finance and understand the implications of not only DVL’s debt but also the operating fairy dust projections glossed by Terence in that Australian used car salesman voice of his (braced by Ms Comms BarnOwl in attendance). And they especially think the review committee has a collective business brain to coast ratepayers through an impass of Council consolidated debt higher than those obstacles of endurance leading to the peak of Everest, and down again.

    Another grand comedic moment but which gazumped Cr Wilson’s was owned by ex lawyer Ms Calvert who previously acted for Stop the Stadium Inc against the Council. The dear girl found it a handsomely opportune time this afternoon to separate DEBT |||||| from the STADIUM (for community use) – as a contrivance of supposed logic it was so tidy why even the Mayor joined the sentiment.

    To her credit Jinty MacTavish brought points of clarification to the recommendations accompanying the Review, on behalf of the community, as well as a separate resolution on the matter of artificial turf affecting or not commercial and community use of the stadium and therefore stadium operating revenue. Will wait for the wording of that to be published rather than attempt it here.

    A joyful trip on the deck of Titanic was the nature of Council business today, I’m amazed nobody fell over during the dance when Farmer No-one offered the short history of simultaneous pet project capital spends that flew at the same time as Fubar; just so many platitudes flying as gay bunting at head height, blinding the erstwhile political leaders as they claimed strong support for the Review and its smart content.

    If they don’t know already, the last page quietly slipped into the report before they all voted to adopt it (apart from the man who shall be known as V) was to sign over ownership of the City and its Assets to the Aussie Banks or was it China, I couldn’t quite make out the small print —but you all know to trust our hallowed elected representatives, they will serve us well, and brightly, in the dark rates years ahead.

  11. Sally

    Elizabeth, was there any talk of asset sales at the meeting to prop up the stadium. if so by who?

    • Elizabeth

      Why yes, Sally. Cr Mike Lord was totally into asset sales by mention today (y’know sell the performing assets to back a TOTALLY FAILNG lemon scenario). He was cautioned about that actually, since the Report containing the Review is not about asset sales. If Cr Lord wants to raise that he must use another forum. So I guess he will pop up again soon.

      • Elizabeth

        It seems to me he is not an efficient farmer if that’s what he brings to Council (unless he has a jet boat, caravan, holiday homes at the Lakes and so forth for disposal which have nothing to do with Sheep Farming or Dairying – which isn’t the same as City Forests, or indeed Citifleet).

        When I was at boarding school in Oamaru from where Cr Lord’s family harks (his cousin, a day girl was in my A1 class throughout my secondary schooling – just a lovely person), my best friend’s family had a very large sheep station (mustering by chopper carrying a dog box underneath), I will always remember the oft cited family joke – their ski boat was classified as “pool equipment” for tax purposes, and yes they did have an attractive swimming pool where we all spent a great deal of time. Such are the differentials between corporate farming and the flouting, enjoyment or definition of company and family assets.

        The Council appears ripe for the picking according to the new councillor, Lord.

  12. Peter

    We have made no progress with this council. Change of personnel, but still the same old games. I honestly think the job is beyond them. Most of them, let’s face it, come from uninspiring backgrounds. Councils seem to attract wannabes who are there for either themselves to further their own business interests or who think they can achieve something which is so often transitory till their great ideas fall foul of realities unforeseen.
    I don’t think I will vote again. I see no point.

  13. Elizabeth

    Peter, there was/is only deadwood to chose from as far as candidates go.

    Yes I pine for the more progressive towns and cities further north, and T Shadbolt on a rainy day (south), which can attract the up/down balance of live wires with business experience and community service at a mostly higher level every decade – the likes of who (with their fiefdoms) put the local body representatives at Dunedin to shame, despite our present crop being nominated by Spokes, and awarded, for vague incomplete badly planned multimillion-dollar debt-funded cycleway attempts in order to stay in bed with NZTA, nationally.

  14. Peter, I am coming around to your way of thinking as to voting. As you say, what is the point? I think all we can do is ‘lampoon’ them at every turn. Sooner or later the public at large might cotton on. Trouble is can the city survive that long?

    • Peter

      Calvin. I am overcome by fatalism…..and contempt. I figure if l bin my voting paper in the recycle bin l am doing my bit for sustainability.
      I am very disillusioned with people on that council whom l had regard for but who have now become flakey.
      I am sick of being manipulated by feel good slogans and reassurances that change will come. No accountability and no guts to seek it.

  15. Elizabeth

    Forgot to say, Cr Mike Lord twice stated at the council meeting that he now enjoys going to the stadium. And in signing out from his fantastic contribution to discussion, he said he didn’t mind paying more for the stadium. I guess you can say that if you receive a nice councillor stipend on top of dairy profits. Not so sure those in low-wage positions, those with part-time employment or out of work —or retired with only Govt superann to fund themselves, or those with poor health…. anyone struggling to meet mortgage, rates and rent, food, medications, clothing and heating would agree. The self-serving bastard.

    • Anonymous

      Reduced to product placement? Next he will be wearing spandex, handing out free (ratepayer funded) rugby balls and waving about an Oddity.

      • Elizabeth

        Yes, not long til then, Anonymous.

        ODT, according to Murr on Ch39 tonight, will run the (real) news tomorrow morning – that should include what Cr John Bezett is championing today, namely the chief executive’s list of Council assets in popular use that are subsidised. Like they are the same as the stadium, he thinks; but I doubt Sue Bidrose thinks that herself. We know Moana Pool, DPAG, Dunedin Town Hall, Otago Settlers Museum are subsidised, this is not news, it was never news, Cr Bezett – these assets are not shadowed by superlative debt like the Fubar Stadium. This is not a fair or reasonable comparison to make, for your massage exercise.

        DCC via Sue Bidrose, gave us the message a while back that Council was all done with MASSAGE – sadly, obviously, deplorably, nothing it has committed to lately via media is anything but.

    • Peter

      You cannot base your voting on any issue based on some personal, fickle born again experience. That is superficial and dumb.

      • Elizabeth

        Aye Peter. But this is the calibre.
        A few councillors today said they STRONGLY supported the report/review.
        There appeared to be no self-awareness of the farce this presented.

        I note Cr David Benson-Pope was perhaps sensible enough to say nothing at all today on the stadium review. Which leaves time for examination at the Annual Plan/LTP hearings.

  16. Elizabeth

    ### dunedintv.co.nz November 24, 2014 – 5:51pm
    City Councillors weigh in on the stadium’s future
    Dunedin City Councillors have weighed in on the future of the city’s stadium. The operation and ownership of the facility have been reviewed. And an extraordinary meeting held today gave members of the city council a chance to discuss issues with the stadium in depth.

  17. Brian Miller

    I decided to go along to the council meeting today, expecting some vigorous debate on the continual attack on the ratepayers wallet to fund the stadium. To my surprise only three councillors took part in any serious debate on the issue. The rest appeared to be there to eat their lunch, and clock in to collect their pay. It is astonishing to think that there appears to be a lack of interest in the continual cash flow of ratepayers’ funds that is only going one way. One councillor wanted to consider asset sales to prop up the stadium. Other than the three councillors who expressed concerns, nobody appears to be concerned for the ratepayers who are continually forced, not by their own choice, to dip into their limited funds to prop up professional sport.
    After watching the disinterest of some of our councillors today, over the continuous flow of good money disappearing down the stadium black hole, it has become more easy to understand how the hospital board can have millions of dollars stolen from under their nose, and the council can over 10 years or more lose track of over $1.5 million worth of vehicles. Because the majority of our representatives appear not to care enough to call those responsible to account.
    If they missed a council payment into their bank account, you can bet that they would sit up and start to care.

    • @Brian Miller
      November 24, 2014 at 9:15 p.m.
      in response to Elizabeth:

      “One councillor wanted to consider asset sales to prop up the stadium. Other than the three councillors who expressed concerns, nobody appears to be concerned for the ratepayers who are continually forced, not by their own choice, to dip into their limited funds to prop up professional sport.”

      Brian I am appalled that any councillor should be talking along these lines. It is plain that the very cause of the present parlous financial condition of the city’s accounts is due in no small measure to council’s ineptitude in building this thing in the first place and its ongoing drain on our resources into the future.
      I hate to think of what assets he has in mind but the list that was published for possible asset disposal contained public reserves. The council’s first objective in this sorry blunder should be to contain and minimise the cause(s) of the problem. They should be taking a very close look at their actions for starters.

      If, as I suspect, the councillor concerned represents Mosgiel he might pause to consider the effect of selling off public reserves to pay for such an ongoing liability. In doing so he might perhaps consider the effect of disposing of Memorial Park close to home. From all accounts, this extraordinary meeting seems to be a waste of time.

      • Mike

        We’ve continually had stadium supporters suggest on the ODT forums that we should start with the library and the gardens, I think a better idea would be those rugby grounds with clubrooms on them.

  18. It’s not a Honda. Always appreciate when a writer drags KJ into it, and ‘es awefull Version.

  19. Whippet

    Where does Chris Morris get his information from. In his article in the ODT Online this morning he states the following: “Cr Staynes voted against the stadium in 2009.”
    Council minutes clearly record that Cr Staynes voted for the stadium.
    Why is Chris Morris trying to rewrite history ?

  20. Anonymous

    Much about that current stadium pump Crystal Ball ‘Out’ is a violation. So many strings being pulled I’m surprised they don’t all get tangled up.

  21. Elizabeth

    Cr Lee Vandervis …. insisted the document was “a publicly-funded bureaucrats’ answer to what are serious business problems”.

    ### ODT Online Tue, 25 Nov 2014
    Crystal ball ‘out’, but city needs to ‘get over’ debate
    The crystal ball was broken when the Dunedin City Council decided to build Forsyth Barr Stadium, but it is too late for a refund. That was the message from Dunedin deputy mayor Chris Staynes at yesterday’s council meeting, as councillors voted to grant another $1.81 million a year to the troubled venue.
    Read more

    █ Yesterday’s decisions would form part of consultation on next year’s council long-term plan.

  22. Elizabeth

    As I predicted to colleagues prior to yesterday’s extraordinary council meeting, Cr Chris Staynes is now the new Syd Brown. Another simpleton, and dangerous with it given attachment to so many vested interests. As prearranged, Staynes’ performance gave Cull glide time so he didn’t have to work too hard as Mayor yesterday.

    Cr Lee Vandervis gave a measured credible performance throughout in opposing the recommendations and is somewhat under-reported by ODT, including their failing to document Cr Vandervis’s points about the lack of independent review.

  23. Peter

    Would Chris Staynes say that to victims of sexual abuse? Get over it. The past is the past. How about other victims of crimes?
    For all intents and purposes the city has been abused by ‘dirty white men’ who have fingered our purses for their own desires.
    They must be so grateful to people like him who cover up with him. He is lucky having co-conspirators like the ODT who go along with Staynes in telling us to shut up.
    Fuck off, maties

    • Mike

      I replied to Russell’s post on the ODT but my response seems to have been ‘lost’ – here’s some tongue-in-cheek translations from the report of the council meeting:


      Russell, when Cr Staynes says:

      “The crystal ball that was used at the time clearly should have been returned under warranty. It was way out.”

      I think he means: “We had no idea what we were doing so we believed what Farry told us without checking for ourselves.”

      And when he says:

      “What we suffer now was the fact that promises were made … with information which was far from what turned out to be reality.”

      I think he is trying to say: “We were lied to.”

      And when he says:

      “We need to be positive as a community about this facility. The past is the past.”

      He really means: “Oh I wish those people we used to get re-elected on an anti-stadium platform would go away.”

      When Cr No one says:

      “If that’s our only fault, we can look back on setting up the city for the future.”

      I suspect he likely means: “We really set them up when we stuck them with the rugby stadium costs didn’t we, whee!”

      When Cr Whiley says:

      “Stadium loans could be extended again, from 18.5 years to 28.5 years, to help ease the burden.”

      I think he really means that he thinks: “We should pay more even more interest on the rugby stadium, but don’t worry we’ll get the grandkids to pay.”

      When Cr Peat says:

      “The stadium was in ‘a league of its own’ in its financial state and potential.”

      He’s likely saying: “This is so screwed up, it couldn’t be worse, we’re spending millions and millions of the ratepayers’ money and there’s no end in sight.”

      And finally when the Mayor says:

      “For me, this is a great improvement.”

      I think he is really trying to say: “Wow! that new arrangement of the deck chairs looks really great.”

  24. Simon

    This whole issue leaves a very bad stayne and smell about the council’s decision to hit the ratepayers once again, without calling those to account who conspired to rip off the ratepayers, to fill their own pockets and egos.

    • Peter

      Simon. Basically the council is running a protection racket for those people. And they know it. Gutless to the core. I feel no sympathy for them as things inevitably get worse while they conjure up more inept moves to shore things up.
      One can only imagine the impact on their personal lives as they live through this hell. Well. Tough. That’s what comes when you don’t face up to realities.

  25. Rob Hamlin

    This isn’t over yet. There are many more visions to come. The Mosgiel pool continues to grow like a wart on the Taieri. It is now not one pool but four. My pick is that it will be a Moana scale facility before it finally goes to Council for funding. As to local Mosgiel fund raising even at the most optimistic calculation the required coin to be raised is $750 per head, or c. $2,000 for each household. My pick is that the DCC will underwrite this projected fundraising once the visionaries have faithfully promised to raise this funding – then we will have another Football South outcome a year or so later. Once it’s built with 100% DCC funds, HP swimming will move in due to ‘insufficient local demand’. That’s what my crystal ball is showing me.

  26. JimmyJones

    Rob: it looks to me that our current bunch of ORC and DCC councillors are, on average, even more feckless, dim-witted and prone to group-think (flocking instinct) than the last lot. If the decision to build the stadium was re-run tomorrow with the same information, but with today’s councilors, then I predict that they would make the same extremely bad decision as did the previous councils.

    It’s not just because the average councillor is more stupid, it’s also because the machinery that was responsible for the misinformation and the manipulation of public and councillor opinion is still in place – still telling lies and wanting us to think happy thoughts. Our councillors’ inability to learn from their mistakes is a serious risk to our city, as you explained at the ODT.

    {Opinion piece linked to post here. -Eds}

  27. Simon

    CRYSTAL BALLS. Just give us councillors that have the balls to stop these highwaymen robbing the poor ratepayers.

  28. Simon

    Could someone out there inform me as to who was the holder of the crystal ball (chair of the council finance committee) with the responsibility to ensure that all reports on costs associated with building this “no cost to the ratepayers stadium” were fact and not fiction, before they were presented to council ?

  29. Elizabeth

    Simon, the late Richard Walls was the DCC Finance and Strategy Committee chairman at the time the Council decided to build the stadium. Richard had obviously been a strong contributor to this website in those years and before his death. He maintained here, and elsewhere, that having been a Carisbrook man he had an initial aversion to the proposal for a new stadium. Later, he evidently became smitten with the idea of the new [in order to stay within balance of power]. So his tale is recorded here.

    • Peter

      I remember Greater Dunedin had a strong aversion to Walls. It was people like him they wanted to get rid of in order to create their greater Dunedin. Now, ironically, they honour his memory by indulging in the same flip flops and efforts to marginalise people who don’t agree with them.
      Dave Cull is as testy as Walls ever was in his latest outburst. Not that I mind because it means the criticisms levelled at his council obviously hurt with truth.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s