Walk this way – Aerosmith to play stadium

Received from Rob Hamlin
Monday, 25 February 2013 11:37 p.m.

Best do this quickly quickly as there is one major oddity that has not yet been picked up here. Aerosmith are performing here on April 24 – that’s only weeks away. How long was Elton coming – months/years – that’s the usual lead time for acts of this size, and with good reason. People have to decide to come, make plans, book tickets, hotels etc, in plenty of time. The same applies for preparation in the venue and destination, especially if it’s a small one like Dunedin – eg extra flight capacity. More importantly, the tours themselves are major logistical exercises that have itineraries that are usually planned years in advance.

So what’s happened here? Did they lose a venue at short notice? It certainly hasn’t been reported if they did. Then why the devil are the promoters diverting a major act at considerable inconvenience, cost and at very short notice in our direction.

I suppose that we will be told that it was for the love of the Foobar. However, major events promotion is a hard and chancy business that allows those who play the game successfully over the long term little room for love other than that for money. So my call is that they are coming for money – a lot of it, well over and above their expenses, and guaranteed as well.

I suppose that 40,000 people at $100 a head and no charge for the Stadium, plus help with the travel costs (maybe $450,000 or so that DVML just happened to have come by recently will be a factor here) might deliver a $4 million profit for a few days work – which might interest them.

Maybe the 40,000 will not come, or they will not pay $100. That’s OK, there’s still the guarantee – often innocuously referred to as an ‘event underwrite’. This underwriter is a third party who agrees to cough the agreed amount of revenue if the punters won’t. Some may recall North Island Councils losing their shirts this way before. Is this event underwritten as part of the agreement with DVML? I would be surprised if it wasn’t – Who’s underwriting it? Easy – DVML don’t have that kind of cash. So, got a mirror handy?

Holding big events in small towns is a risky business. Holding them at such very short notice makes it even riskier. That’s why I really don’t think that these guys are taking a risk of this nature. If they aren’t, then we are instead. Maybe we’ll roll the dice and not get burnt this time. But we will eventually if this is indeed what is going on. I would suspect that at a minimum the $450,000 that DVML were recently given by DCC as strategic fund is already well spent. But Darren did say he might (would) be back for more pretty soon.

It’s suddenly getting pretty crowded at the Foobar Multi-Purpose Community Asset innit? Hardly room for Rugby any longer these days. Fifa’s still in the loop with private meetings with our Councillors too – could still be a double booking in the offing. Still no contract with the Highlanders/ORFU and DVML? Now, I wouldn’t be betting on that if circumstances made it worth their while to have one of a certain type in hand when said double booking actually occurs. However, the turf’s still immaculate down the road at DCC/CS Partnership Point – Lucky, eh?

[ends]

Posted by Elizabeth Kerr

127 Comments

Filed under Business, Concerts, DCC, Economics, Events, Name, People, Politics, Project management, Property, Site, Sport, Stadiums

127 responses to “Walk this way – Aerosmith to play stadium

  1. I wonder who will do the sound on this short notice job?

    If it’s Strawberry, great. But people should be getting sacked.

    • DVML’s preferred provider is the screwy ‘short-life’ Australia-based bunch* with their local office in Queenstown. Unless…. in haste as Rob points out, it’s all hands to the deck…..

      *Selected by a process(?) over which Ian Taylor’s had so much trouble getting a straight answer / any answer out of the DVML board.

  2. Interesting to read tweet histories —from persons known who had read @whatifdunedin post alerts tweeted on Tuesday night (26 Feb) – as received by email from a Dunedin associate:

    conversation
    1. Alison Sammes ‏@LittleCatDesign | *sigh* we’re worrying about who’s doing the sound for aerosmith? really? idiots.

    2. Ian Simpson ‏@IanTLS | @LittleCatDesign hahaha. Did you read the comments too? Amazing how hard some people work to find or manufacture bad in a situation.

    3. AliCopeman ‏@AliCopeman | @IanTLS @LittleCatDesign Which site are #DAPL invading now.

    4. Alison Sammes ‏@LittleCatDesign | @AliCopeman whatif. I don’t know what I was thinking. @IanTLS #DAPL

    5. Ian Simpson ‏@IanTLS | @LittleCatDesign @alicopeman more like what TF, amirite?
    9:13 PM – Feb 26, 2013

    conversation
    1. Paul Le Comte ‏@five15design | @Jayson_Bryant @alicopeman it’s very disheartening. Apparently it’s a bad thing the Stadium is being used every other day – how?

    2. Jayson Bryant ‏@Jayson_Bryant | @five15design @alicopeman because the money goes to the event company and not the council?

    3. Paul Le Comte ‏@five15design | @Jayson_Bryant @alicopeman yeah because the $8-10m estimate into the community from a 40k event is bad for Dunedin?

    4. Jayson Bryant ‏@Jayson_Bryant | @five15design @alicopeman is that how much aerosmith cost these days?

    conversation
    1. Paul Le Comte ‏@five15design | for once, i wish the trolls didn’t win. If every decent sane person took 1minute each to knock the trolls down on my site, I’d love it ;-(

    2. Jayson Bryant ‏@Jayson_Bryant | @five15design what site?

    3. Paul Le Comte ‏@five15design | @Jayson_Bryant What if Dunedin. Turns out it’s apparently a bad thing that Dunedin Stadium is being used & Aerosmith coming here #IWeep

    4. AliCopeman ‏@AliCopeman | @five15design @Jayson_Bryant I wish I wasn’t so gullible I went there #NEVERreadthecomments

  3. BillyBob

    Maybe people actually want to go and see Aerosmith. Why don’t you suggest to Aerosmith that they donate their concert revenue to the foodbanks. That way everyone wins.

  4. What’s the Dunedin City Council underwrite for the concert, given ticket sales are LOW ? A couple of $million ? More?

    ### ODT Online Thu, 18 Apr 2013
    Truckloads of Aerosmith’s stage heading south
    By Nigel Benson
    The stage set for next Wednesday’s Aerosmith concert at Forsyth Barr Stadium arrives by jumbo jet in Christchurch from the United States today and will then be trucked from there to Dunedin in 11 semitrailers.
    Read more

  5. Best of luck with this one. 40,000 people expected! Elton got around 12,000, ditto Paul Simon. I sure as hell hope for the city’s sake this one does it. If not, bingo there goes all Dave Cull’s $400,000 in one sweep. Darren will be looking to do a runner just like Mr Davies. Just where the idea that a population base of around 100-120,000 could sustain this sort of gig situated at the bottom of the South Island NZ, beggars the imagination. Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to have to ‘eat humble pie’ on this, but we will see. As I say, good luck.

  6. Phil

    Ah Ha, the good stadium folk are way ahead of you, Calvin. Apparently the ground capacity changes, just like that. I noted that the official ground capacity prior to the Paul Simon concert was suddenly being quoted as 18,000. Which meant that it was practically “sold out”. Seems that the trick is to look at the number of tickets expected to sell, adjust the official ground capacity to suit the ticket sales, and you always “Sell Out” the venue. They are the Kings of the Perfect Crime, these people.

  7. Phil

    I can’t speak for Aerosmith, as I don’t know what the daily costs are in a US retirement home, a single U2 concert costs US$1 million in appearance fees and expenses.

  8. Henry

    And, pray tell, how much are we paying for moving their gear as part of the incentive for getting them here? As Calvin says, how much of the $400k is gone with this Aerosmith deal? A fair amount I’d say….and then they will be after more ‘to make the stadium work’.
    I hope Paul Orders and the wider council are privy to what DVML are spending. Do they view their budgets, and ask questions, or does DVML operate, like Delta, as an independent body even though they come under the DCC as a council controlled company? I suspect the latter. It’s time to change this farcical situation, especially if you don’t trust the ones running these council companies…. which there is good reason not to.
    There is absolutely no excuse for the council to be left in the dark as they were/are with DCHL and to be left picking up the tab on behalf of the ratepayers.

  9. Hype O'Thermia

    Re “an independent body” – my parents said when I earned my own money I could spend it any way I liked, but when I was given pocket money and then asking for extra they could ask “what for?”. If they said “no” there was no future in me whining “it’s not fa-ai-air”. Perhaps before the next election candidates should be quizzed on how they were raised regarding handouts, because it seems like some of them are from very different culture than my family.

  10. Phil

    I finally read the twitter exerts from earlier. Amazes me how people are still trying to cling to the weird notion of new money coming into the region. How many case studies have to be shown from however many different countries before they understand that there is no new money as a result of stadia events ? There is only a redistribution of existing spending, concentrated on one single day. Or is this another one of these “Southern Way” things which seem to be lost on everyone bar a select few. A $100 ticket to the Aerosmith concert promoter means that a Dunedin cinema loses 5 tickets sales over the next month. Does anyone still believe that 40,000 people are going to pay $1,000 on a round trip from Auckland to Dunedin to see Aerosmith ? Surely not. Maybe 100 might be travelling outside of a commuting distance, but 90+% of the income received for the concert comes from the existing funds already in the region. Turn the situation around and ask how many people would be flying from Dunedin to Auckland ? Even without the debt repayment problem, the stadium has a zero economic effect for its region. It’s not rocket science but some days it seems like it must be.

    • When I posted those tweets (always listen in to mindlessness where we’re mentioned) – know the individuals commenting. In public domain, Ms Copeman is on the board of Otago Chamber of Commerce. That sheds a certain light, or was it deep shadow. Maths, business studies, and economics not her strengths.

      • ### ODT Online Fri, 19 Apr 2013
        Bombs prompted Aerosmith to consider cancelling tour
        Aerosmith have revealed their pain over the Boston bombings and say they were close to cancelling their Australasian tour. The Boston five-piece, set to headline Sydney’s Stone Festival on Saturday, watched news of the attack unfold as they waited for their flight at Boston airport. The band are scheduled to play their only New Zealand gig in Dunedin next week. Aerosmith guitarist Joe Perry said his children were a mile away from Monday’s marathon blasts and claimed their friends were among the victims.
        Read more

  11. Phil, you are absolutely right, all entertainment functions are the ‘opiate’ of the people, and as such are purely discretionary. So why would folk in far distant places pay a huge logistical premium just to get to the venue before paying to enter? A few, a lot, or a great many? It all gets back to the fact that local folk are the market, and their dollars as you say, if spent on one thing aren’t spent on another. Again, if you take any section of a society you know that there is a percentage that will be attracted to any activity. Maybe 5% like ballet, 15% rugby, 10% soccer and so on. In Aerosmith’s case I suspect that this would be maybe of a certain age group (again a percentage) and then there is the cost factor ability (another percentage). All this is built into a known factor, the size of the market. Dunedin with a population of 100-120,000 folk, and applying the percentage rule, would tell any sane person that the chances of getting close to 40% as devotees able and willing to pony up the cost of entry would be a huge gamble. One that Mr Burden and his supporting councillors are willing to make. The best of British luck to them.

    • The sooner Mr Burden and his loss-making activities are gone, the better. Hopefully, before this October.

      Aerosmith may be the concert to change the game. Given the scale of council underwriting, things may burst apart.

      Burden has already made it clear to DCC he will be back for more dollars.
      He can shove that where the sun does not shine.

    • As rumoured about town, LOW ticket sales (how many fewer than 17,000?) – until, yes, as Alistair pointed out…..

      Dozens of messages have appeared on the stadium’s Facebook page.

      ### ODT Online Tue, 23 Apr 2013
      Fans angry at late discounts
      By Chris Morris
      Aerosmith fans are crying foul over last-minute discounts to boost ticket sales for tomorrow’s Forsyth Barr Stadium show. It was confirmed yesterday fewer than 17,000 tickets had sold, dashing hopes of a sellout, 40,000-strong crowd touted when the five-band show was announced in February. Concert organisers now hope for a crowd of 18,000 to 20,000, and insist the event will be profitable.

      Dunedin Venues Management Ltd chief executive Darren Burden distanced himself from the discounts yesterday, saying in a statement they were ”an initiative of the promoter and not supported by Dunedin Venues”.

      Upset fans warned they would no longer support events at the stadium, or would wait longer before buying tickets. Others defended the discounted tickets being offered.
      Read more

      • Promoters originally hoped up to 40,000 would attend the concert, but were now expecting ”between 18,000 and 20,000”.

        ### ODT Online Wed, 24 Apr 2013
        Life on the road is a different city every day
        By Nigel Benson
        Forsyth Barr Stadium looked as if it was being prepared for an extraterrestrial convention yesterday. A stage set-up, which the promoters say will be the largest used for a concert in the South Island, filled the Otago Daily Times Stand yesterday. ”This is good old rock’n’roll. It’s a show people shouldn’t miss. The band really gets out amongst it and has a good time,” veteran United States production manager Chris Lamb said yesterday. Mr Lamb (62) has been touring since 1972, with acts such as the Beach Boys, Michael Jackson, Queen, Madonna, Rod Stewart, Abba and Coldplay.

        The Los Angeles-based production manager was impressed with Dunedin’s roofed stadium.

        The stage for tonight’s concert extends 12m into the audience and includes three big screens and a lighting rig involving more than 400 instruments. It will be the first time the best-selling American rock band, with more than 150 million album sales worldwide, has performed in New Zealand. The six-hour event is part of the third leg of Aerosmith’s ”Global Warming Tour” to promote the band’s 15th studio album, Music From Another Dimension!, which was released in November.
        Read more

  12. Fewer than 17,000? On my formula of population percentages, that sounds about right. About 15%.

  13. BillyBob

    40,000 was always unrealistic. 20,000 would be a great turnout for a covered venue anywhere in the world

    • ### ch9.co.nz April 23, 2013 – 7:49pm
      Why do Aerosmith prefer the Dunedin venue
      A stage setup of a type never before seen in the South Island will greet fans for the Aerosmith concert tomorrow. And the band’s promoter told 9 Local News why the Dunedin venue is preferred over stadiums in the north.
      Video

  14. Phil

    There is a pattern emerging with these promoters roaring into town, promising outrageous attendance numbers. I’m wondering if these numbers are being deliberately thrown out there in order to secure a cheap (read “free”) venue hire together with compensation for expenses, on the promise that the city will benefit by 10s of thousands of people coming into town. Of course the promise fails to materialise. The promoter has got exactly what they wanted and the city is left scratching its head wondering if it has just been conned again. Would the promoter had received the same financial welcome if they arrived saying “if we’re lucky (and give away heaps of free tickets) we’ll get near to 20,000 people” ?

  15. Phil

    To be fair, it appears from the press release that we have managed to corner the enterainment interest from Gore. That’s $250+ million well spent, I say. Build it and they will come, all the way from Southland.

  16. Mike

    so according to the above video they only sold 15,000 – less than a big rugby game, I guess it really is just a rugby stadium

  17. Phil

    It was only ever built as a rugby stadium, with space to rent between games. It’s not a purpose built concert venue. Brace yourselves for more complaints about the poor sound quality. It’s exactly what you get from a rectangular concrete structure with thousands of sound-reflective angled surfaces. It is what it is. Naturally enough this will once again by entirely the fault of the concert organisers and nothing whatsoever to do with the venue. Elton John, Hollies, Paul Simon, and now Aerosmith. Everytime it’s been their fault. Funny how it has only been at one venue where the sound quality for these performers has been an issue.

  18. As a matter of interest, the discounting of tickets raises the question; did the promoter willingly embark on that, knowing it would come straight off her bottom line, or did she come to some arrangement with you know who, like “if I discount in order to get some more bums on seats will you subsidise me for the difference?” That sort of stunt fits previous patterns I think. Of course that could blow more than the $400,000 but would that matter as long as they could say we got the crowd? Dave Cull would think so.

  19. Phil

    This I have read about before, with regard to tickets. It annoys me now that I can’t place the situation. Anyway, the upshot was that the ticket seller, ie the promoter, still received the face value of the ticket. With the underwriter (I guess that’s why they are called that) making up for the shortfall.

    A wet night, sub-standard acoustics and a car ride back to Gore. Would you be taking advantage of the extended drinking hours in the Octagon ?

  20. Hype O'Thermia

    One sober driver……. Yes. Esp if you came from Gore. In view of their history of young pissed-as drivers you mightn’t bother too much about the sober driver either.

  21. Peter

    Could they make up 4000 extra, in 24 hours, after the earlier 16,000 claim?

    Sad that people have to get pissed and stoned at such ‘fun’ events and the behaviour must have been bad for the police to wisely close the bars at 9:30.

    (Interesting comment about the funeral, Elizabeth. I drove past while it was on and Rattray St and surrounds around the Cathedral were far from full with cars. I was also expecting to see images of the funeral inside…unless the family did not want this. The point is of course that numbers can be deliberately inflated or overestimated for reasons known to those who do so.)

  22. Rob Hamlin

    The question is and remains what was the nature and scale of the underwrite associated with this event? – Because I do not believe that this act (or the others) would have come to this City without one.

    Clearly any promoter who is in possession of such an underwrite commitment will not give two hoots about last minute discounts because they are fully subsidised by the underwrite. Indeed, there’s no real issue from either party’s point of view with pretty much giving them away in the final rundown – which may well be where the extra 4,000 comes from.

    Unless of course these reported figures are for 20,000+ McPravda Stadium Bums (which are a bit like fisherman’s inches). You may recall at Paul Simon’s concert that 18,000 McPravda Stadium Bums eventually equated to 12,500 real ones – which would give an attendance for last night’s event of around Peter’s expected 16,000 – if the same units are being applied by our beloved independent voice here.

  23. BillyBob

    Awesome concert. Sound was great. One of the best I’ve seen (of many).

  24. Peter

    The builders/workmen who worked on the Town Hall were given free tickets to Aerosmith to thank them for all their hard work.I wonder who else was given freebies, at the last minute, to bolster up numbers. All in a good cause, no doubt, ‘to make the stadium work’. How much longer can we sustain this bizarre delusion?

  25. Hype O'Thermia

    It’s good to learn that the sound was great this time though. As a ratepayer I remain convinced it is a giant loss-maker. I don’t want artists and audience to have a shabby experience though, just to underline the insane money aspects of the stadium’s existence, so I’m pleased when they, however many or few they may be, have a good time.

  26. Peter

    The only real requirement of a rock concert is that the sound is LOUD. We are not talking about some orchestral event. So sound quality is irrelevant I would have thought.

  27. BillyBob

    I’m guessing Peter hasn’t been to many rock concerts

  28. Peter

    Billy Bob. You are right! I know my comment might sound a touch of old fogey (at the same time I don’t listen to Richard Clayderman’s easy listening, piano classics), but I do wonder if the sound quality is that important…..especially if you are stoned or pissed!

  29. Phil

    That 20,000 figure, if it is indeed accurate, likely includes all the freebie tickets (was there anyone in town who WASN’T offered one ?) and most likely the corporate box “ghost” figures (where 30 people are counted even if only 1 shows up).

  30. Peter

    DVML won’t be made to show evidence of the real attendance figures because they are trusted. Naive, to say the least. When the shit hits the fan, they will say,’Heavens, we didn’t know the full extent of the problem’. It will be like the Hudson DCHL debacle, all over again. Sorry, but it is time to take responsibility, council staff and councillors.
    By the way, wasn’t DVML’s structure and operations supposed to be reviewed and reformed? What’s happened to that process? Or was the $400k ‘community’ slush fund, to ‘make the stadium work’, the result of that review?

    • DVML has repeatedly declined to discuss details of deals made to secure acts for Dunedin, citing commercial sensitivity, but Aerosmith lead singer Steven Tyler this week said the band chose to have its only New Zealand concert in Dunedin because ”they must have made us the best offer, eh”.

      ### ODT Online Fri, 26 Apr 2013
      Big concerts build stadium’s reputation as top venue
      By Debbie Porteous
      Forsyth Barr Stadium management says the venue is staking its place as one of the country’s top concert venues after hosting by far the biggest shows in Australasia for two major international acts recently. Wednesday night’s Aerosmith rock concert (20,000 fans) and Paul Simon’s show on April 6 (12,500) drew the largest crowds for both acts’ Down Under tours after slow ticket sales across the Tasman forced them to rearrange concerts. The Dunedin turnout for Aerosmith was about 8000 more than attended the band’s show at the two-day Stone Music Festival, performed with Van Halen in Sydney last weekend. The group had cancelled its solo show because of slow ticket sales, some Australian media claimed.
      Read more

      • Very good letters to the ODT editor today on the subject of stadium acoustics and food for sale. Darren Burden’s replies were of the usual buffoonish sort we have come to expect. Will scan these later tonight and post here.

        • ODT 8.5.13 Letters to the editor Stadium (2a)ODT 8.5.13 Letters to the editor

          Another of those (editorial) Bible reading quips!
          [Burden apart; also fitting in view of Cull’s treatment of the Dalai Lama last week]

  31. So, Steven Taylor confirms that folk not only pay to go to the concerts, but that we actually also pay to have them here. That’s analogous to ‘coughing up your cake before you eat it.’ That way it tastes like bile.

  32. Robert Hamlin

    Here we have a recent official response from a senior DCC manager to a Councillor asking some recent awkward questions about DCC/DCHL debt arrangements. I have capitalised the juicy bits:

    “Interest on Shareholder Advances

    During the public meeting questions were asked about the different assumptions for interest rates in the 2013/14 draft Annual Plan. PARTICULARLY THE INTEREST RATE ASSUMPTION OF 7% COMPARED TO THE INTEREST RATE CHARGED ON SHAREHOLDER ADVANCES OF 4%

    The concern expressed was that the Council shouldn’t be subsidising a CCO.

    The Council has two shareholder advances: $112m to DCHL and $3.381m to DVML. The Council approved in January 2013 during the budget meeting that the shareholder advance to DVML would be converted to shares. This will occur prior to 30 June 2013. The reason that there isn’t a shareholder advance to DVL, is because the Council investment in DVL is in shares.

    The decision to charge interest on a shareholder advance is a combination of requirements between the Local Government Act (LGA) and Tax legislation. THE LGA REQUIRES THAT MONEY LENT TO A CCO MUSTN’T BE ON MORE FAVOURABLE TERMS THAT [SIC] THE COUNCIL COULD EXTERNALLY BORROW ITSELF. SO WE MUST CHARGE INTEREST AT THE MARKET RATE THAT THE COUNCIL COULD BORROW AT, AT THE TIME, E.G. 4%.

    From the tax perspective the rate has to be at a market rate (assumed to be 4%) otherwise the IRD could consider there to be a deemed dividend. An interest charge is required to help ensure the deductibility of group expenditure.

    The Council is concerned with the total amount of revenue it receives from DCHL, ie both interest and dividends. For the 2013/14 year, the total amount to be received is $10.45m. If the interest received is greater or less than the amount included in the budget, due to a change in interest rates say, then the Council would expect to receive a corresponding change in the dividends it receives.

    THE INTEREST RATE ASSUMPTION OF 7% FOR THE COUNCIL ISN’T A MARKET RATE BECAUSE IT TAKES INTO ACCOUNT INTEREST RATE PROTECTION MEASURES, FIXED INTEREST RATES AS WELL AS AN ESTIMATE OF FUTURE MARKET RATES.” – ends

    The Councillor to whom this letter was sent is comfortable with its wider publication. They also inform me that the remarkable achievement of ‘protecting’ the DCC’s interest rate payments at 75% (300 basis points) above the equivalent market rates for nearly all DCC debt has been achieved by the large scale purchase of derivative based debt instruments over an extended period of time. This despite the issues with these frightful objects, both in this country and abroad, being well publicised for several years.

    As the DCC owes approaching $700 million across its operations, and DCHL in particular is beginning to pop at the seams under the weight of it, this revelation is hardly inconsequential. This admission that the interest rates that the DCC is actually paying on its debt and that it expects to pay (at a minimum ) into the foreseeable future indicate that the annual interest bill is expected to be at least $50 million per annum, or around half of the domestic rates take over a long period of time – and this does not include any principal repayments.

    But wait, there’s more – As the DCC seem to have seen fit to roll its debt into these internationally discredited debt instruments, we must be aware that they are unpopular because [they] possess a capacity for the delivery of continuing unexpected and unpleasant surprises to the borrower. Oddly enough they never seem to deliver anything like as many unpleasant surprises to the vendors of such things. This may be why they have been subject to much international legal interest and surprisingly successful legal action – not to mention specific government action. But no action is to be seen from Jonky and his mates in NZ, of course.

    Just to take one example, the $34 million plus that the DCC has already lost on these debt arrangements is described as losses on interest rate and CURRENCY fluctuations. If these heavily repackaged instruments are for debt that is eventually denominated in another currency, such as Sterling, then if the dollar retreats from its current historical highs of 0.55 GBP to its historical long term level of around 0.37 GBP, then the DCC interest rate repayments could rise quite quickly to $75 million per annum and possibly higher than that.

    The extra $25 million represents an extra $500 pa on each household rates bill if one assumes (reasonably) that businesses would be either unwilling or unable to shoulder an additional burden. The same argument does not apply to householders. Although hardship might be the outcome for many, the law allows the DCC to ‘stick’ them with whatever bill they feel like, and if the debt and/or repayments have been secured by a charge on the rates, then they have ABSOLUTELY no choice in the matter.

    It is this legal capacity to charge ratepayers what they like when they like, not any demonstrable fiscal strength or record of prudence on their part, that gives the DCC its high credit rating. Even a whisper that this right might be curtailed or removed by central government might well lead to immediate substantial foreclosures by lenders to the DCC – especially if enforceable principal repayment guarantees are in place, and most particularly if the value of ratepayers’ own property can be directly accessed by the lenders as part of separate legally enforceable guarantees involving charges on the rates.

    It is this capacity to inflict further damage on this community, above and beyond what has already been enthusiastically inflicted, that has caused me to demote the Forsyth Barr Stadium to fifth on my ‘Community Threat List’ of DCC activities of interest. The list now reads as follows:

    1) DCTL
    2) Current arrangements for the City’s water assets
    3) Carisbrook
    4) Delta
    5) FB Stadium

    Most texts on the psychology of addition say that the cure can only begin when the addict finally casts away their often cunning systems of concealment and openly admits to both themselves and others that they have a problem. Only then can help be given and remedial action be administered with any hope of success. Of course many addicts never reach this point and cannot thus be helped – the consequences both for the addict and those that are associated/dependent upon them can be very serious indeed.

    The DCC appear to be addicted to overspending and borrowing – an addiction that dates back some ten years. They now desperately need help, and the time has now come for them to openly admit it. This is if in fact the time for effective help to be delivered to them has not come and gone already.

    Observation has led me not to believe that effective ‘help’ would come in the from the long term suspension of local democracy and civil rights and the replacement by the Government of the Council by a hand-picked a set of commissioners drawn from this country’s small community of ‘good ol boys and gals’ who have contributed so much to the development of this miserable situation in Dunedin, and in other places too, in the first place.

  33. Hype O'Thermia

    “The group had cancelled its solo show because of slow ticket sales” – if true they were down this way with all their gear and an unproductive gap in their schedule. Finding suckers prepared to pay for them to come here must have been a great improvement on sitting it out on no income till the next booked show. I see it as similar to major building firms tendering low to get a contract that normally wouldn’t be worth their while, when the building trade is having some ups and downs. It’s better to keep all the staff on and getting “some” income, even if not profits.
    BTW reading odt comments, isn’t it agonising watching some people fail, fail and re-fail to get the difference between gross income and p-r-o-f-i-t?
    No wonder there’s a crying need for more budget advisors when financial illiteracy is so deeply entrenched.

  34. Mike

    well yes, though I suspect that some of that is wilful – as I mentioned to you the other night the main culprit also suggested the other day that we should do away with the library because it apparently costs as much as the stadium …. and he works there … I can’t take him that seriously

  35. Hype O'Thermia

    I can, Mike. I’ve known intelligent people – intelligent-acting in most aspects – who say things like “I use margarine not butter and I only use olive oil for frying” and can’t understand why they aren’t getting any thinner. Besides, some places I worked at I’d have been delighted to see “done away with”!

  36. Mike

    Thanks – I was amazed the printed it all it’s a bit long. I followed Calvin’s nice note with the following, we’ll see if they print it.

    Thanks Calvin, it’s not easy running a tiny stadium, I should add that I’ve done some other things to try and make my tiny stadium make money.  I started with a loss leader, I invited my old gay uncle a lounge singer, quite popular at the local pubs, to open it he said he’d do it if I gave him the gate takings and ate the other costs, it was great he filled it and made a killing. But I lost money and now all the aging lounge singers want the same deal.  Also my daughter signed up the under 8s team’s parents who were having some sort of black tie fundraiser for the team they also had a great time, caroused until all hours but didn’t pay their bills and left me owing for the booze too. Luckily I’ve persuaded the local PTA to pay up for them.Do you think I’ll start making money if I pay the local kid’s soccer team to play an exhibition match? My next door neighbour is laughing at me the more money I lose. But I’m having the last laugh, when he’s not looking I nip over and take a 20 from his wallet and put it in the tiny stadium fund, if I do that enough and squint at the books it almost looks like I’m making money.

  37. Peter

    Hype. It all goes to show intelligence is one thing. Common sense (not the Peter Dunne variety) is another.
    Darren Burden must be really feeling the pressure to perform after David Davies’ failures to secure events and cope with the job. Darren has solved this by giving the promoters what they want. This buys him time. Now Burden has the Town Hall to run (down).
    All he has to do is keep mum on the real ‘profit’ figures for the stadium and keep asking the dopey councillors for more money, when needed, and hope they continue to cough up. Commercial sensitivity, absurdly extended to cover the right of decision makers to question, will continue for God knows how long.
    In the end, the pack of financial cards will collapse and we will know this is near when Darren has secured himself a new job, just in time to jump a sinking ship.
    Well, that’s my crystal ball theory!

  38. Mike

    Ha! Just got off of the plane and they did print it, only abridged one word

    Eds-
    At ODT Online:
    It’s not easy by MikeStk on Fri, 26/04/2013 – 3:44pm.

  39. Mike; I too followed up and ‘glory be’ they are printing it.

    Eds-
    At ODT Online:
    Who said it should be easy? by Calvin Oaten on Fri, 26/04/2013 – 5:31pm.

  40. Rob; that is a very comprehensive coverage of the financial risks we face.
    Just a point, the DCC’s budgeted dividend/interest payments of $10.450m from DCHL. It seems to me that it would be better if it was all interest and no dividend, as interest would be expensed before the profit is arrived at, whereas the profit is taxed before dividend is paid out. Is that not correct?
    Also, it is worth noting that the LTCCP shows that $10.450m plus $3.561m from Waipori Fund plus $5.25m from DCHL to DVL are continuous year after year till at least 2022/23. The fact that DCHL don’t traditionally make sufficient revenue to meet these requirements without borrowing doesn’t seem to have occurred to them. So far, I’ve seen no sign of a ‘Plan B’ to
    cover this fact.

    • ### ODT Online Sat, 27 Apr 2013
      Aerosmith concert draws noise complaints
      By Shawn McAvinue
      A classic rock song claims Rock’n’Roll aint noise pollution but several Dunedin residents disagree and have complained about the loudness of the Aerosmith concert on Wednesday. Dunedin City Council senior environmental health officer Wayne Boss said the council had received 28 noise complaints about the concert. More complaints were expected. Most of the complaints came from the Opoho, Dalmore, Pine Hill and Waverley and the council would eventually map the various complaint locations, Mr Boss said.
      Read more

  41. Hype O'Thermia

    Oddity comments are varied.
    *Too loud in the stadium, my ears are still ringing.
    *I wear earplugs to cut out pain level noise but still enjoy the music.
    *It’s a ROCK concert!
    *If the people who don’t want to endure that level of noise, suburbs away, get their way we won’t be able to have concerts any more
    *and the predictable gem, people who complain are selfish.

    Clearly a genteel noise level a la chamber music wouldn’t work. Aerosmith’s audience wouldn’t be into sitting dead silent, straining to hear the small figures in the distance. How loud, though, must a rock concert be to be enjoyable for the audience? Someone must have done the research.

  42. From someone that was there……
    “This stadium is great for rugby but shit for concerts.”

  43. Peter

    And that short, to the point comment, wirehunt, pretty well sums up what the stadium was built for in the first place.Until they realised they had to justify the build for other things.
    I always remember the comment in the blacked out appendices that for the stadium to be accepted by the ratepayers it had to be ‘perceived’ to be multipurpose. That’s why we now have to pay big incentives for other users to go there. As that Aerosmith band member said, ‘We must have got a pretty good deal, eh’.

  44. Peter; diagnostically, unless that stadium can get a transplant (preferably to somewhere else) it will remain perpetually on dialysis, constantly having its innards recycled and supplemented by nutrients provided by the ratepayers. Otherwise it simply dies.

  45. Hype O'Thermia

    Is it OK if ratepayers pay with “perceived” money like dud cheques, old milk tokens, and washers almost the same size as dollar coins painted gold? Chocolate dollars would be good but I think people might be tempted to eat the chocolate first and that spoils the wrapper.

  46. Hype; you could check this out with Michael Guest. It was rumoured once, that he put washers into a pokie machine in the Normanby pub many years ago. Allegedly, he was banned. Now I can only say that is the rumour.

  47. Mike

    Calvin – when we were running the campaign to dump Guest last time around we were told that rumour by so many people there seemed no point in spreading it further – more provable things like his on-line law business and having the Chairman of the Highlanders (or was it the ORFU, one of them) registered as part owner of his house when he was voting for the stadium were much easier sells due to the easily available public documentation.

  48. Mike

    yes apparently Mr Burden has yet to read his stadium’s own facebook page lots of people there pissed off about the crappy sound

  49. Phil

    In typical Burden style, he’s both right and wrong. What you would expect from someone who is simply reading what is placed in front of them but understands very little of the content. The stadium was built to be exactly that, a football stadium. That is its prime function. If it were built to be a concert venue, it would be constructed and shaped very differently. A rectangular concrete structure cannot control the movement of sound in the way that the curved surface of a concert hall can. Sound uses transmission, vibration, and reflection as its form of transport from source to receiver. Right angled concrete surfaces are the worst possible nightmare. Throw a tennis ball at a concrete angle and then try to guess where the ball is going to go. Throw 3 balls at the same angle and then see if they all go in the exact same direction. It’s impossible to manually control, as a number of very experienced sound groups have demonstrated. Unless someone is trying to suggest that the Aerosmith production team have insufficient skill or experience in installing concert sound equipment.

    Confirmation of the problem, and the only long term solution, are clearly visible in the complaints and praise comments. Almost all who complained about the sound quality were sitting in the concrete stands, Those who had no such audio problems were sitting on the pitch, in a direct line with the speakers. The moment that sound is required to change direction in order to reach the receiver, the stadium becomes an acoustical deathtrap. It’s basic acoustics technology and it can’t be corrected. There is, however, a solution. As much as it may pain the stadium fraternity who have spent several generations worth of revenue in order to construct a concrete monolith, the only way to ensure a quality and consistent sound quality, is to move everyone from the stands and down onto the playing pitch. The speakers are raised to minimise absorption of the sound by those in front, and all patrons have a direct line between themselves and the source of the sound.

    I have dealt with this exact same problem in the past. In my case it was a fully enclosed ice hockey arena of similar size and shape to the stadium. They closed off the stands, placed everybody on the covered ice surface, and had themselves a great concert.

  50. The other, non-grass friendly solution, would be to set up the stage in front of the north stand. You’d still probably get some sound reflecting off the south stand (*this is how AMI stadium in Christchurch was set up for concerts, and some most noticeably some drum noises really bounce). This means that you have your standing room (or elite seats or whatever) up the front on the pitch, but that the people in the stands and corporate boxes are not miles away, and directly facing the stage.

  51. Walk this way … to the Stadium.
    New report on DCC web-site about spending $450,000 on “Wickliffe Street Walk/Cycle Connection”. This has little to do with cycling, and everything to do with Stadium access. Add this to the Stadium bill.

    {Link to report added. -Eds}

    Report – Council – 13/05/2013 (PDF, 267.2 KB)
    Wickliffe Street Walk/Cycle Connection

    • ### ch9.co.nz May 10, 2013 – 7:08pm
      Cycleway land may mean budget overruns
      Land needed for the Wickliffe Street walk and cycleway connection may mean budget overruns for the Dunedin City Council.
      Video

      • HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN.

        ### ODT Online Mon, 13 May 2013
        Effort to advance work on harbourside cycleway
        By Debbie Porteous
        Surpluses in several council budgets will be pulled together so that another section of the shared path around Otago Harbour can be built in the next year. The section of cycleway/walkway will link Wickliffe St with the existing shared path on Magnet St.

        A report to councillors considering the council’s 2013-14 budget said that during negotiations for the land required it became clear that the cost of the property and fencing and lighting was going to be about $307,000 more than expected.

        The work was initially to be part of the realignment of State Highway 88 around Forysth Barr Stadium, but was separated from that while property negotiations continued for the land where part of the section of cycleway was intended to be.
        Read more

        (my emphasis)

  52. Hype O'Thermia

    Rule 1: Keep propping the stadium up with “whatever it take$”
    Rule 2: Hide this in an unrelated section of the budget, people have got wise to the DVL, DVML, initials shuffle according to Policy DV8..

  53. Anonymous

    The Wickliffe St cycle connection should actually make it easier to access the harbourside cycleway to St Leonards. It makes no sense as it is currently to come up Wickliffe St to Anzac Ave, through the what-used-to-be a safe intersection at Frederick St, then all the way back down Parry St, across the overbridge and through the what-used-to-be-SH87 underpass.

  54. HI Alistair,
    As someone who cycles down that way a bit (and not to the stadium), I have to disagree (sort of). The path from Ravensbourne is great, the paths round Portsmouth Drive and through the wharf area likewise. The idea of a connection is great. However, the proposed link is insane. The map attached to the report is inaccurate. It shows only three ~90 degree turns. The reality is that this path will have two 180 degree bends (already in existence) in addition to these three right hand turns, including the one for which a mirror has just been proposed at a certain cost.

  55. On closer inspection, it might be three 180 degree turns, unless you want to carry your bike up some steps. Which, let’s face it, if you are having to do 180 degree turns, you may as well. Not a bike path.

  56. I am not sure that the new route makes it any easier to access the harbourside cycleway. The natural route at the moment is take the Thomas Burns Street cycleway and cross Anzac Avenue at the St Andrew Street lights and then have right-of-way to Parry Street. The new route means risking the roundabout onto Ward Street.

  57. Instead of Ward St, there is also a cycle path down Fryatt finishing up near Emersons, and I’d always wondered if they were thinking of some access there.
    However, I suggest comparing the actual configuration with the rather less convoluted path depicted in the report. The green represents what is already there (which is already terrible for cyclists), and the red is what will likely be, which is even worse. Will they be surprised when they discover they have created another corner requiring a mirror?

  58. The reason for this project is to get patrons, who park in the industrial area South of the Leith, to the Stadium without having to walk across State Highway 88. 180 degree turns don’t worry pedestrians. Cycling is a side-issue.

  59. Hype O'Thermia

    Um, I haven’t looked at the map but isn’t a 180deg “turn” a straight line?

  60. Anonymous

    I don’t understand why they didn’t build the infrastructure for a pedestrian walkway / cycleway on both sides, given that this plan was under development at the same time as SH88.

    Also not sure why they don’t put a simple bridge across the Leith and avoid the whole underpass/turning nonsense altogether.

  61. Hype O'Thermia

    Budget overruns? Goodness gracious. Dearie me. Well did you ever hear the like, etc etc.

  62. Hype O'Thermia

    Jeez, find a surplus and shout Kentucky Fried for everyone like 3rd generation beneficiaries.

    • I’m more than hacked off that the Hawkins bunch want to play games with the so-called price of construction. PwC proved the cost was considerably over $220,000,000. How convenient to keep marketing that “220” er benchmark, even with the light falsifying touch of “plus” or “more” added. Mr Holmes, in action, is a well presented nicely spoken salesman.

      [Mr Holmes was rolled in by the Betterways Advisory Ltd goons as a witness – ever so loosely and calmingly – to speak on waterfront hotel construction.]

  63. Peter

    This rather flies in the face of the reported comments from Dave Cull that any savings would not be part of a continued ‘spending spree’. I know a week is along time in politics, but a couple of days???

  64. Hype O'Thermia

    Don’t mock the afflicted.
    Please show compassion to victims of Politically Induced Early-onset Dementia Syndrome (PIEDS) in which memory loss is accompanied by frequent episodes of foot in mouth.

  65. Anonymous

    The $307K is easily explained. As soon as any local landowner gets wind of a DCC project, they sit tight. When the DCC Property Office bumbles along after having drawn up plans for whatever project is on the go, the negotiating price goes up sharply. The local authority can compulsoirly acquire land for Public Works, but they must still negotiate and settle with the landowner.

    I’m not sure if the sale and purchase agreement for 56 Parry St has seen the light of day yet, but the contents thereof indicate how truly naive and/or constrained the DCC Property Office is, with regard to purchases.

    • Any update on what 56 Parry St is used for ?

    • ### ch9.co.nz May 10, 2013 – 7:08pm
      Cycleway land may mean budget overruns
      Land needed for the Wickliffe Street walk and cycleway connection may mean budget overruns for the Dunedin City Council.
      Video

      • ### ch9.co.nz May 14, 2013 – 6:54pm
        Councillors send complex issue back to the drawing board
        A cycleway planned near the Forsyth Barr Stadium continued a convoluted path to completion at the DCC. The half-million dollar cycle and walkway would connect the city to the harbour cycleway. But councillors at annual plan deliberations sent the complex issue back to the drawing board.
        Video

        • ### ODT Online Thu, 13 Jun 2013
          Cycleway connection project signed off
          By Debbie Porteous
          Construction of a section of cycleway connecting Dunedin’s west harbour track with the city should be completed by the end of the year.

          Dunedin city councillors signed off on the $450,000 project this week, allowing final land negotiations to be completed.

          Councillors recently asked council staff for a report on options for linking the complete cycleway from St Leonards to the completed cycleway at Fryatt St via the State Highway 88 bridge over the Water of Leith. The request followed concerns about the efficiency of the proposed route over the bridge, which requires pedestrians and cyclists to complete several sharp turning manoeuvres. However, after a site visit and a preliminary estimate that attaching an alternate bridge-crossing alongside the railway overbridge instead would cost at least $500,000, councillors decided to keep to the plan. The plan was part of the agreement reached with the New Zealand Transport Agency during the construction of the realignment of SH88.
          Read more

  66. Anonymous

    Gallaghers moved in as a tenant a few months ago.

  67. Pedant

    Fleetwood Mac to be the next big act to be announced at our glorious multi-purpose venue.
    ODT will be in raptures, and there will be an even better sound system to placate those 2 noisy people who insist concrete does not have awesome acoustic properties.

    • Pedant, nope, not going. Saw Fleetwood Mac at Auckland in my youth. Nothing can beat that – not worth the concrete reverb and overpriced tickets at the Plastic Fantastic. The Worrisome Burden can sod off.

  68. Phil

    Wow, that’s great news. Each sound system will be better than the one before. Kind of weird that the finished product isn’t any better. Can’t fight physics.

    Fleetwood Mac, that sounds about right. Another retirement tour by another artist who should have quit while they were ahead 20 years ago. Not knocking 64-year-olds, but none of us are who we were back then. We’re getting a good name as a pensioner artist venue. Maybe that’s our niche ? It’s certainly obviously all that we can afford.

  69. Hype O'Thermia

    I read a while back about people clustering outside the Fubar (a la Scotsmen’s Grandstand at Carisbrook) to listen to a concert. Does anyone know what the sound was like outside? Did they find a “sweet spot” where it was really clear?

  70. Anonymous

    Apparently the sound quality is great up on Opoho and Waverley

  71. Hype O'Thermia

    That’s nice.
    They won’t begrudge the Fubar Fee on their rates then.
    In fact people will flock to Dunedin to buy properties in those suburbs because of the stadium, it’s just as St Mal-Feasance promised, growth and progress such as was never seen before.

  72. Peter

    I see a letter in today’s ODT by a Christchurch resident, Ian Redell, who claims he and some associates, who were in different parts of the stadium, found no problem with the sound. From this he postulates that there is no problem with the sound at all and can’t understand all the continuing kerfuffle over the issue.
    Talk about a lottery. Even Darren Burden acknowledges that good sound isn’t everything. It’s the overall experience that counts. Cough.

  73. Pedant

    No Fleetwood Mac sorry folks.
    But on the plus side, we know where our $400,000 went.

    • No love lost between DVML and McManus.

      ### ODT Online Thu, 23 May 2013
      Dispute after stadium concert cancelled
      By Nigel Benson
      The promoter of a Fleetwood Mac concert scheduled for Dunedin later this year is angry at being charged a $50,000 fee after the cancellation of the concert. McManus Entertainment managing director Andrew McManus told the Otago Daily Times from Melbourne yesterday he had taken legal action against Forsyth Barr Stadium over the fee. Mr McManus said he agreed a deal with Dunedin Venues Management Ltd in January to bring Aerosmith and Fleetwood Mac to Dunedin. ”We agreed to a contract for $200,000 for Aerosmith and $200,000 for a Fleetwood Mac concert later this year. When I did the initial deal, I honestly believed I had both tours.” The amounts were to be paid by the stadium to the promoter.
      Read more

  74. Peter

    The “build it and they will come” has been superseded by a new slogan “pay them and they will come”.

  75. Rob Hamlin

    I can vouch that the Alhambra Rugby Ground up in Opoho is the place to be. You could have been in the stadium when I was running the dog up there last concert. I’m not joking – it was really clear. Not surprising when you see that the focus of the acoustic ‘horn’ formed by the ground and the asymmetric South Stand are pointed pretty much directly at it.

    As to CS and Carisbrook – Well, I’ll believe it when I don’t see it. How long did it take to demolish the cement factory? – Another ‘southern site sight’ on the approaches to our fair city.

  76. Mike

    Hmmm – after the ODT first published my comment on this issue pointing out that the $200k per concert payment to the promoter was obviously no longer “commercially sensitive” they removed it … perhaps characterising it as a “kickback” may have ruffled some feathers

  77. Hype O'Thermia

    Great info, Rob (May 23, 2013 at 8:54 am) “Alhambra Rugby Ground up in Opoho is the place to be” for clear sound from the stadium. Community picnic gatherings would be fun, with local fund-raisers’ sausage sizzles for local needs, or donations + potluck events. Better check out the areas the DCC / rugby beneficiaries can’t ban people from setting foot on. These events could fit well into the valley community initiatives.

  78. Mike

    heh – I like that idea I’m sure the locals who get the brunt of the stadium sound but no love from the DCC would be keen to encourage a new “Scotsman’s Grandstand” for fubar concerts – assuming they didn’t just alienate all the promoters

  79. Pedant

    Now, am I right in assuming that the $200,000 mentioned is what DVML were paying to the promoter?

  80. So, it is official; we paid Mr McManus $400,000 for him to stage each of two events. The Aerosmith (been and done ) and the Fleetwood Mac (still to come) which has now been cancelled by Mr Mcmanus. David Burden wants $50,000 back. Mr McManus is ‘miffed’ at that and says he will contest it in court. Let’s not forget whose money we are talking about. It’s ours, kindly donated by Cull and his worthy councilors. We not only buy our entertainment, we are expected to pay up front and not ask for our money back when it is a no show. This raises the question; what ‘nincompoop’ is given the authority to commit the money given by other ‘nincompoops’ up front for events which we the public are expected to attend? Answer; Darren Burden. Additional question; what do the other ‘nincompoops’ have to say about that? Answer; nothing.
    And these are the people in whom we trusted to look after the interests and welfare of this city.
    Stunning eh!!? Roll on October.

  81. Peter

    Paying $400,000 to McManus for the two events, Aerosmith and Fleetwood Mac (cancelled), is called ‘making the stadium work’!

  82. Hype O'Thermia

    Of course it is. So that’s how much per rates account, whether we went to the Aerosmith concert or not?
    Add that on, then not even the cheap seats look so cheap any more.

  83. Whippet

    Now we know what McManus was paid. Next question. How much have the Highlanders and the ORFU been paid for appearance. Do they get more for a win and less for a loss? It could be cheaper for the ratepayers if they cancelled out. Save the continual embarrassment of seeing those non preforming overpaid old All Blacks struggling to the showers.

  84. Russell Garbutt

    I’d love to see a genuine financial analysis of this deal!

  85. Mike

    I’m sure it’s still “commercially sensitive” even though we’ve probably been told the worst part.

  86. Mike

    Here’s the “Aerosmith Noise Management Plan”:

    http://www.forsythbarrstadium.co.nz/media/39831/130423_aerosmith_nmp.pdf

    Next time you’re annoyed by stadium noise give this number a call (03) 479 4395 – they’re required to notify the DCC on your behalf, who are required to …… well do nothing much unless they want to.

  87. Mike

    assuming there’s anyone there to answer the phone and willing to go out with a sound meter at 10pm

    • Mike, Noise Control is available 24/7 via that DCC number – and yes they (contractors) do go out and are efficient about it (they report to Environmental Heath).

  88. Hype O'Thermia

    The noise “policy” in Dunedin is so broken!  
    Re Arc Cafe – remember? – subsequent alterations to neighbouring building without adequate noise barriers and what happens, developer has to retro-fit to make the apartments OK?  No, long-lasting cafe and music venue is constricted down to unworkable with consequent loss of value both monetary and social.
    Stadium concerts cause hours of large-scale noise pollution, and indoor noise levels way beyond a workplace could be allowed, but “the enjoyment of many” is presumably the excuse for this infliction – and hearing hazard.  If it’s too loud for a chainsaw operator to be allowed to work without industrial ear protection………?
    Call both, keep a record,  compare and contrast.
    Careful observation may reveal small differences in how they “do nothing much unless they want to”.

  89. Hype O'Thermia

    Were there no complaints to them at the time, for the Aerosmith concert? Does anyone know? There were plenty of complaints afterwards.

  90. Peter

    Auckland’s Fleetwood fortune
    Dunedin’s loss is Auckland’s gain, with legendary band Fleetwood Mac confirming they will play at Auckland’s Vector Arena this year.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/concerts/news/article.cfm?c_id=161&objectid=10886179

    {Detail added to support link posted. -Eds}

    • ### ODT Online Fri, 31 May 2013
      DVML takes lower fee for cancelled show
      By Nigel Benson
      Dunedin Venues Management Ltd has extended an olive branch to the promoter of the ill-fated Fleetwood Mac concert scheduled for Forsyth Barr Stadium. McManus Entertainment director Andrew McManus was initially charged a $50,000 cancellation fee for the event, over which he threatened legal action. However, he told the Otago Daily Times yesterday the fee had subsequently been reduced to $15,000.
      Read more

  91. Mike

    Not really sure where to post this – but there are some surprising places on Google’s streetview: http://goo.gl/maps/R3Qg9

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