Stadium deathwatch II

The results were yet to be analysed in any detail, but there appeared to be a mix of constructive and critical comments coming in.

### ODT Online Wed, 7 Nov 2012
Public responds to stadium use review
By Chris Morris
More than 400 people have had their say on the future use of Forsyth Barr Stadium as a deadline for public input approaches. The Dunedin City Council launched a review of the stadium earlier this year – when faced with a multimillion-dollar loss by the company running it – and last month called for suggestions from the community. Council policy analyst Tami Sargeant said when contacted 428 responses had been received by yesterday afternoon, days before Friday’s 5pm deadline. Most of the feedback had come from the council’s People’s Panel, members of which were sent questions about the best ways to reduce stadium costs, increase revenue and optimise community use.
Read more

Related Post and Comments:
5.8.12 Stadium deathwatch

Posted by Elizabeth Kerr

122 Comments

Filed under Architecture, Business, Concerts, Construction, CST, DCC, DCHL, Design, DVL, DVML, Economics, Events, Geography, Media, Name, ORFU, People, Politics, Project management, Property, Site, Sport, Stadiums, Town planning, Urban design

122 responses to “Stadium deathwatch II

  1. Elizabeth

    Comment at ODT Online:

    A great stadium that’s not great
    Submitted by Challispoint on Wed, 07/11/2012 – 3:26pm.

    I think it is easy to focus on the stadium as the problem. It’s not – its a great stadium and we are lucky to have it in Dunedin.
    Read more

    [published 08/11/2012 9:24am – that took a while…]

    Lesser (make it work)
    Submitted by ej kerr on Wed, 07/11/2012 – 4:13pm.
    Could be wrong, didn’t Challispoint stand with Greater Dunedin in the last elections. Wonder if the 2013 elections are on the agenda with this their latest comment.

  2. Leading questions are a feature of the People Panel surveys.
    In the latest Stadium one:
    “2A Should community events be subsidised by commercial events? Y/N”
    “2B Should community events be subsidised by a ratepayer fund or subsidy? Y/N”
    Aren’t these options effectively the same?
    Any “surplus” from commercial events merely reduces the Stadium losses.
    Using this “surplus” to subsidise so-called community events, just means a larger loss which must be covered by ratepayers.

  3. Calvin Oaten

    The ‘People Panel survey’ on suggestions for the stadium is just your typical political stunt. It will assess all ideas, pick out the ones which suit the agenda already decided, highlight those, ignore the negatives, proceed with the agenda and claim that they are pursuing the popular wishes of the people. That way the disaster will continue unabated, the losses will escalate, but hey! we are carrying out the wishes of the people, in the people’s place, the stadium. Simple really.

  4. Peter

    A ‘People Panel’ sounds so darn inclusive, but the truth is the council is panicked about what to do with the stadium. Just ask the people to come up with something viable. If they don’t, the council can say they tried every avenue and THEY, The People, didn’t come up with anything viable either. Bingo.
    As Big Mal said, it was his job to deliver the stadium and we are only limited by our imaginations as to what to do with it. Catchy slogan, eh.
    Come on, you creatives. Imagine.

  5. Hype O'Thermia

    ““2A Should community events be subsidised by XYZ” but they don’t mention that ALL events are subsidised by ratepayers EVERY time, there’s no other way it can be. Days there are no events are also paid for by ratepayers, it just costs lots more to have something happening in it than to have nothing at all. I haven’t seen the People’s Panel, didn’t realise it was going to be such a “when did you stop beating your wife” “we make you give answers that have sod-all relevance to your opinions & observations” plastic packed pre-digested exercise in codswallopery. Or is there a place for respondents to add comments?

    • Elizabeth

      The People’s Panel stealth bomb.
      I joined up when it was announced. There appears to be no checks and balances on it – be in to win?

      From an earlier comment:

      ### ch9.co.nz August 7, 2012 – 5:54pm
      Web-based People’s Panel comes online
      A new tool that allows Dunedin residents to have their say on city issues has flickered into life. The DCC’s web-based People’s Panel will allow not just the usual surveys of resident’s opinions, but also some direct questions on hot topics of the day. And it links up with another project that provides struggling families with computers, and access to the internet.
      Video

      ### ODT 8.8.12 (page 5) – In brief
      Opinion sought
      The Dunedin People’s Panel was launched yesterday. Council chief executive Paul Orders encouraged anyone who lived in, or had an interest in, Dunedin to join.[…]Panel members would be asked to complete an online survey every six to eight weeks and would be sent regular results and feedback. To launch the panel, 2000 invitations would be sent to randomly selected people. For more information and to register, visit http://www.dunedin.govt.nz/peoplespanel

      Dunedin City Council
      Media Release – 7 August 2012
      The Dunedin People’s Panel
      http://www.dunedin.govt.nz/your-council/latest-news/august-2012/the-dunedin-peoples-panel

      • I notice I no longer get emails from DCC to participate in the People’s Panel ? I wonder why.
        Has anyone else been removed from their mailing list ?

        http://www.dunedin.govt.nz/peoplespanel

        ### ch9.co.nz May 27, 2013 – 6:50pm
        Dunedin City Council and University of Otago marketing students’ collaboration proves successful
        A collaboration between the Dunedin City Council and University of Otago marketing students has proved successful. The students have more than doubled participation in the DCC’s People’s Panel. They have also developed a marketing strategy the council has adopted for further use.
        Video

  6. Calvin Oaten

    Elizabeth; yes, there are places for comment. Be in quick. I propounded the scenario where it made total economic sense to close it up and close down DVML. Accept the known fixed debt (apologies to distractedscientist) and get on with it.

    • Elizabeth

      Calvin, I’m amazed I haven’t been booted off the People’s Panel yet – my survey comments are probably binned. Like you I said shut the stadium down, as in get rid.

      Other news to hand, folks – of the ‘near stadium’ sort, in the confirm or deny category…

      The Highlanders are rumoured to be moving into the Old Unipol building on Anzac Avenue.

      If true it really pisses me off, since for years we’ve known Hocken needs more storage and Unipol “is it” if Hocken has to stay at that dreary, isolated end of town.

      There was also some story University of Otago Property Services wanted it for themselves.

      But if it’s the Highlanders, hey, it should be about shoving more pokie funds into the professional rugby empire for ‘development’, ‘facilities’, ‘higher performance’, or was it ‘excellence’?

      Maybe TTCF Ltd can help – with Ministers, politicians, DIA and Martin Quivooy looking the other way. The ORFU bros have the system down pat. Or ring Kereyn.

  7. Calvin Oaten

    Hopes for sale of ‘Brook’: Well, so it might happen after all. Potential purchasers (that’s a gas) include a Dunedin investor and a Dunedin family, expatriate with a “substantial amount of money” (the best sort) and two Christchurch-based organisations. Mr Clark said he hoped to show a profit on the sale. Suppose the upset was for $4 million as suggested was owed.
    Allowing $200,000pa for rates, insurances and maintenance (purely a guess) and a return of say 10% on the investment, this would require annual revenue of $420,000net before tax. Now, wouldn’t it be ironic if the purchaser had in mind to offer the facility for all manner of sporting and social activities. For instance, offer the facility to junior rugby on Saturday mornings during the season. The “littlies” 9 to 10am, the slightly bigger 10 to 11, next 11 to 12, and so on till 2pm. Then, it could offer the senior competition a match in the afternoon with spectators a modest charge of say $5 per adult, children accompanying free. The morning events would be family affairs, Mums and Dads simply a ‘gold coin’. That takes care of the Winter season. Ditto in the Summer, a system of rotation for junior cricket, softball, athletics etc all juniors a ‘gold coin’ entrance, Mums and Dads $5. All admin by the respective sports volunteers. And then, if and when a large arena with 30,000 plus crowd capacity was required (such as a Bledisloe Cup) a negotiated deal could be arranged. Then of course there are the band contests, marching team tournaments, soccer, and of course, cricket, because it was a really economic venue, all lesser activities would be attracted. How hard would it be to imagine totting up $420,000pa? Folks, this could be a social bonanza for people, a financial bonanza for the purchaser, and a development bonanza for sports activities all round. How difficult is that? You would wonder why the ORFU couldn’t have thought of it wouldn’t you? Too late, we already have the FB Stadium, you say. But off a $224m starting base, are you kidding? The Carisbrook purchaser would be a mega millionaire before the FB could even break even.

  8. Elizabeth

    Stadium boon for organisations
    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/233950/stadium-boon-organisations
    Forsyth Barr Stadium may be a white elephant to some Dunedin ratepayers, but it is turning into a windfall for community organisations. Armourguard has recruited about 500 volunteers from local community groups to work as stadium ushers and ticket scanners at events. The company then pays the volunteers’ wages to their organisation.

  9. So why doesn’t our idiot council do that Calvin?
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Answered my own question there didn’t I.
    Something that would actually be useful to the whole community unlike the current POS.

  10. Jacko

    Good one Calvin, but Carisbrook doesn’t fit in with the Uni. The main reason that the elephant was located were it is. Nice present from the ratepayers to those that don’t contribute anything to the general rates of the city.

  11. Rob Hamlin

    We will end up paying for two of them Wirehunt. I was approached by a media organisation late last week interested about the pristine state of Carisbrook. Said that they were going to ask questions around town this last week. Pressure – So I am not surprised at this latest Carisbrook related PR ‘burp’ from McPravda. This contains absolutely no concrete information that we have not known about or has been hinted at for nearly a year. But it should serve to quell further awkward questions about its condition, ownership status and future until at least the end of the year.

    A similar ‘It’s been kept pristine as an All Blacks training venue’ McPravda PR burp was synchronous with similar pressure about its remarkable pristinity a few weeks back – a state that still continues. By the end of the year however the ‘Emergency pro-rugger kicked for touch by FIFA World cup emergency Highlanders/ORFU contractually required acclimatisation initiative by free accommodation at Carisbrook.’ excuse should be ready to go. Of course new lights will then have to be installed ‘just in case.we go all the way in the Super playoffs’.

    Full rugger recolonisation of Carisbrook and the astroturfing of the other ‘community asset’ could then be put in train for the following summer.

  12. ormk

    The university constructed a gym which reduced the construction fees for the stadium.

    Are you referring to students when you say “those that don’t contribute anything to the general rates”? Are you serious? The university contributes massively to Dunedin – both economically and culturally. Most students rent and through their rents not only pay rates but also provide profit for commercial and private landlords. The students have been let down by the stadium project just as much as other members of the Dunedin community.

    Maybe there is a sense of jealousy that the University is asset rich as an institution? It has a responsibility to remain asset rich so that it can carry on doing world leading research and providing higher education. The DCC was once asset rich too – that meant it could similarly indefinitely meet its key goals – providing the cities key infrastructure. It is a great shame the DCC lost sight of this.

    No need to have a go at the students – they’re kids – none of this is their fault.

  13. Russell Garbutt

    The only comment I would make is that I happen to have been present at a meeting of University staff addressed by Malcolm Farry, chaired by Professor Sir David Skegg, where Farry stated that “the new stadium is actually a University project”. Farry of course stressed various views of why the rugby stadium was necessary dependent on who the audience was, but it is of enduring concern why the University, which is a vital, important and revered major player in Dunedin and Otago, should believe that 1000 extra students per annum would decide to come to Otago because there was a new rugby stadium. I’ve never understood that position.

  14. Peter

    Yes, Farry was the consummate salesman. Tell people what they want to hear and make them feel gooooood. A common line of car salesmen is, ‘I can see you driving that car, X ‘. Spot the difference.

  15. Anonymous

    The religious followers of professional rugby work in unbelievable ways.

    Poor old pensioners
    Submitted by Autonomouse. on Fri, 09/11/2012 – 7:58pm.
    If you’ve worked for 47 years, lived through the bouyant baby boomer economy and havent put enough pennies aside to cover an additional few dollars for an increase in your rate account then I have zero sympathy for your plight.
    [Sadly, continues.]
    http://www.odt.co.nz/sport/rugby/233200/october-date-bledisloe-cup-test#comment-35593

  16. Hype O'Thermia

    Ormk, you say the university contributes to Dunedin economically because students pay rent therefore rates. I can assure you that *landlords” pay the rates no matter who the tenants are. They pay rates when they are repairing and redecorating after immature tenants such as those who enter the “worst flat” competition. Building owners pay rates when the building is empty for any reason. The university itself does not pay rates. It has residential property, I don’t know if it is exempted rates on that as well as on lecture halls, libraries etc, perhaps someone else knows.

  17. Calvin Oaten

    All government owned properties pay service charges – water sewerage etc. They do not pay general rates. The more the University expands, the more the City’s rate base shrinks. So the University, whilst the biggest thing in this town, is a two-edged sword. Oh, and by the way, we never ever hear it mentioned, but the removal of that great swathe of ‘industrial land’ to make way for the stadium costs us how much per annum in lost rate revenue? A stadium cost, surely. DVL has had its rate (lesser value than industrial) basically forgiven as being too onerous. These are the little things which are really ‘collateral damage’ conveniently ignored by the ‘business gurus’ like Malcolm Farry and co. when they perpetrated this great fraud upon this city.

  18. Hype O'Thermia

    It’s easy to understand, Calvin, why “collateral damage” was ignored by Mr Farry in the sales pitch period, it didn’t fit the Vision.
    What I find sickening is that they keep on being publicly ignored or obscured to this day by Mayor, Council, media and all.

  19. ormk

    Russell: The matter you raise of Farry rolling up support at a meeting chaired by Prof Skegg is concerning. Who made the assertion that the stadium would bring 1000 extra students? Implausible as it sounds, was this really a major contributor to the selling of the stadium project?

    Hype O’Thermia: I think democracy benefits from including the widest possible community. Many people rent – not just students – these people are part of the community and should be part of democratic decisions. Renters may not pay rates directly but they are not living on the charity of their landlords – their rents pay the rates. Not including renters as full members of our community leads to the kind of elitism that we have seen to cause the big problems this blog is about. I do however have sympathy with your concern regarding property damage. This is unacceptable and as a member of the University I wish that it were controlled more stringently. (Though not by limiting civil liberties – there is nothing wrong with a good party.) Perpetrators should be pursued more vigorously in the criminal courts and simply excluded from the University when found guilty.

    There are also problems in North Dunedin with rubbish collection and recycling which are both inadequate for the population there. Also while there are some good landlords there are many places that are really neglected and squalid and this does not help. Don’t forget landlords chose to invest in this area – it is relatively easy to get tenants.

  20. Russell Garbutt

    ormk – the staff meeting was held in Burns 1 and was, as I recall, an “opportunity” for Farry to tell University staff all about the stadium. David Skegg was, and as far as I know, still continues to be a strong supporter of the stadium because, amongst other things, he said that there would be lots and lots of rock concerts. Certainly he stated on a number of occasions that such a stadium would attract between 500 and 1000 EXTRA students to Otago. Where this came from has never been explained.

    I certainly recall some staff members closely questioning the whole issue but the one comment that Farry said which really stood out was that the “whole thing was about the University – it was a University project”.

    Like most things that Farry said and continues to say, demonstrably a pile of rubbish.

  21. Hype O'Thermia

    I clearly remember the “1000 extra students” was a “truth” that came from Farry and took root as an unquestionable article of faith. From the first I wondered why students would bias their educational choice because of a venue for entertainment that because of travel/airport/distance factors would NOT be on the map for big touring acts, not for big out-of-region audiences.
    Dunedin is [undiagnosed] Alzheimers capital of the world. Short- and medium-term memory exists among a minority of the population who are regarded with scorn by those who believe it’s normal to recall only a small selection of oft-repeated truthinesses.
    Take this simple test now:
    Did we have announcements that big acts were coming to the Regent? And then did we have cancellations because the numbers, the bookings, showed they were going to lose money?
    Scale that up to the expense of bringing plane-loads of lights, staging, support crew and all for a stadium rock event and getting enough out-of-region paying customers – do you think this is feasible?
    Scoring – if you did not answer Yes, Yes, No, there’s no point in telling you how you scored because now you are looking around in bewilderment and asking “Test, what test? Who were the Highlanders playing?”

    • Elizabeth

      I don’t hold out much hope that the majority of respondents will have done the extensive maths required to show how the stadium will NOT directly impact further on the wallets of renters and ratepayers. Dunedin citizens are saddled with the whole cost (present and future) and there’s no-one in the picture otherwise to remove that burden, thanks to DCC voting through the stadium build on the basis of no viable business plan. So the punters keep shooting in the dark, like they always do (they voted in the councillors and mayor ineffectual, didn’t they?) and wonder why they can’t afford 40 years or more of no Christmas presents for themselves. By gum.

      ### ODT Online Sat, 10 Nov 2012
      Rush of stadium use ideas
      By Chris Morris
      Dunedin City Council staff have some reading to do after a late rush of public suggestions on ways to make the most of Forsyth Barr Stadium. Council policy analyst Tami Sergeant said 476 suggestions had been received by yesterday’s 5pm deadline, up from 428 received by Tuesday. The total received included 372 from the DCC’s People’s Panel, more than half of the panel’s 625 members, while another 50 people used the council’s website to make suggestions known to the council. More than 200 organisations that had used the stadium since opening day last year had also been asked to contribute, resulting in 54 responses.
      Read more

  22. Anonymous

    I’m assuming the Big Four Banks have invested in multiple ratepayer funded stadiums throughout New Zealand? The bulk of our construction money left town and hundreds of millions in debt repayment go the say way.

    Given we are a captive market faced with increased rates rises as a consequence, it must be sweet, sweet joy for them.

    AUSSIE BANKS IN NEW ZEALAND
    ANZ/National – Profit: $1.27b (record), up 17 per cent.
    BNZ – Profit: $741m, up 21 per cent.
    Westpac – Profit: $707m, up 22 per cent.
    ASB – Profit: $685 million (record), up 21 per cent.

    JOBS IN NEW ZEALAND
    Unemployment – up 7.3%
    CEO pay packets – up 9.9%

    Dunedin City Council is just as bloated and corrupt now as it was when the Stakeholders used a bunch of simpletons and greedy individuals to push through their public funded entertainment venue.

    What is happening now is everybody is trying to get their cut of the pie while there’s still opportunity for a bit of last minute pillaging, while Shale and his team are still sweeping the muck under the carpet, while the usual self serving rats are allowed to remain at their posts.

    And yet a few people still believe that a rugby stadium will be their saviour.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/7931098/Outcry-at-big-banks-mega-profits

  23. Calvin Oaten

    There are 478 suggestions as to how to make the best of the stadium. Among those there will be at least one recommending it be closed down. This is backed by the latest revelation that the consolidated losses since opening, amount to some ($19.361m). Will that option be considered? Don’t be daft, it will almost certainly be decided to throw more money at it in order to encourage events to come. The ($19.361m) won’t even be on their radar screens. Watch this space for the next brain explosion.

  24. Mike

    I’m willing to bet that way more than one entry suggests closing it down

    • Elizabeth

      More softening up.
      Story in today’s ODT (page 7) – the weblink will show up Sunday…

      [OCR scan]

      Dunedin losing ground on event incentives
      By Chris Morris
      Dunedin could face multimillion¬dollar competition from New Zealand’s largest cities if it opts for a new events fund to lure more big acts to Forsyth Barr Stadium. The idea gained new momentum when deputy mayor Chris Staynes threw his support behind the move last week, suggesting a new targeted rate on the city’s hospitality sector could help pay for the fund. That followed claims from Dunedin Venues Management Ltd the stadium was missing big events – including an All Whites game – because it could not compete with other cities’ incentives.

      Dunedin Mayor Dave Cull was yet to commit to the idea, but said it was clear the city needed to “find ways to incentivise events” after DVML confirmed a $3.2 million annual loss last week.

      However, even flush with a new fighting fund, Dunedin would still face stiff competition from councils in Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch, which were already investing large – and in some cases growing – sums to secure events. Auckland had created a new council-controlled organisation for the job, armed with a nearly $10 million annual budget, while Wellington was raising millions through a targeted rate and Christchurch was spending millions more, the Otago Daily Times has found.
      Read more tomorrow…

      http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/234080/dunedin-losing-ground-event-incentives

  25. Anonymous

    I understand the editorial team have a lot on their plate but there are frequently times like this one that feel like the paper has reproduced or rejigged a press release from the Dunedin City Council. It doesn’t read like news but more like something a marketing type will throw up. I would pay for a newspaper again in this city if the company backed its reporters to ask difficult questions and not go all gooey eyed before a Stakeholder.

  26. Calvin Oaten

    Mayor Dave Cull says; “it was clear the city needed to “find ways to incentivise events” after DVML confirmed a $3.2ml annual loss last week.”
    Why? Do we have to spend our way to oblivion just because other centres do? If Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch are prepared to join in the race to the bottom, does that mean we, the smallest, least financial of the cities, have to follow suit? Only a mad lot of people on council would see it that way. Face it, do the ordinary folk get to live better or longer if events do or do not happen in the stadium? It is a bloody great fraud perpetrated by a few dopey, selfish people who have no idea what real life is about. That is getting along on the resources available, obtaining and keeping a job, providing a roof over the family’s head, feeding and clothing one’s dependents and generally living. This stupid business of elevating sport and entertainment up and over the essentials of life is just an exotic indulgence by the rich and pampered few who foist the costs of their ‘jollies’ onto the masses. It is for the individual to decide whether he/she wishes to be involved in sport and recreation either as a participant or an onlooker, they don’t need to be forced into penury to meet the wishes of the ‘bread and circus’ brigade. The financial costs and social disruption to this city of the stadium is proof enough of this. And it still goes on.

  27. Anonymous

    Putting money into an events fund will simply lose more money. The stadium cannot show a profit.

    Council would be far better off recouping the money from the consultants, advisers and auditors who said that the stadium business plans were OK. That should net a few tens of millions of dollars.

  28. Hype O'Thermia

    Why bribe promoters to bring events here? Isn’t free use of the building enough?
    There has been a little change of tack in the letters & opinion posts, querying why “naysayer” types expect the stadium to “make a profit” andof course saying library etc don’t. Some reminders are needed that it isn’t profits that are being called for, simply less loss per-day per-person on those few days that anything goes on in the building.

    • Elizabeth

      I doubt that those saying the stadium shouldn’t be expected to make a profit are in business for themselves – they’ve probably never read a balance sheet – not when their employers can do it for them. These types fail to see consequences.

  29. Anonymous

    Few still carry Eion’s message pools, parks and libraries are somehow the same as his rugby stadium. Many have opened their eyes and slowly come round to the realisation they’ve been sucker punched. No stakeholder can sweep away the irrevocable truth each and every rent and ratepayer is now paying for their get richer schemes.

  30. Anonymous

    It is true. Most do not understand the financial wizardry used to dull minds but they do know they’ve been taken advantage of and something wrong has occurred. It is this realisation that is so insulting to many. Dave Cull and the current puppeteers choose to ignore this slow burning anger. Nobody likes being burnt, especially when loyalties have been abused. People might not be storming the Ivory Tower with pitchforks but they’re certainly visualising it.

  31. Rob Hamlin

    The best way to look at this excuse of ‘The Library and Botanic Gardens lose money too’ is to categorise the entertainment venues of this City into three categories – into which they plainly, cleanly and exclusively fall:
    Venue Category 1: Entertainment venues that are open access to citizenry free of charge during normal working hours at least
    Library, Botanic Gardens, Art Gallery, Otago Museum, Early Settlers Museum, All other parks, public spaces, sports grounds and playgrounds
    Venue Category 2: Entertainment venues that are open access to citizenry with a charge during normal working hours, or extended periods of time
    Chinese Gardens, Ice Rink, Gasworks Museum, Discovery World, Moana Pool
    Venue category 3: Entertainment venues that are open only for specific and limited periods for the delivery of specific entertainment events. Charges for these events apply:
    Hoyts, Rialto, Fortune Theater, Mayfair Theatre, Regent Theater, Taieri Gorge Railway, Forsyth Barr Stadium, Town Hall
    As can be seen Category 3 contains the FB Stadium, but it does not contain the facilities with which it is so frequently compared. Instead it shares its space with venues that are either entirely commercial and privately owned, or are expected to find the majority of their funding from sources other than the ratepayer. One of the fully commercial entities is in fact a CCTO, as is DVML. Indeed so clear is the distinction between the Stadium and say the library, that there is room for a third intermediate category to comfortably exist between them. This third category does contain Moana Pool – but is still not in the largely commercial third category as it is still open access not event constrained.

  32. Hype O'Thermia

    Another difference is whether they can be used actively not as spectators/audience by a solo individual or a family or other group or pair.
    The ones most often used as examples to “prove” the Fubar Stadium is just like them and therefore deserves as much funding as it can consume, are Library, Art Gallery, Museums, Botanic Gardens. All can be used during all open hours by anyone who comes in the door, and all combine recreation with education. Each user is free to choose which, or what mixture of those, suits their needs on the day.

  33. Peter

    This argument that the pros give for the stadium being just another community facility that should not be expected to pay its way is probably the biggest admission from them that the stadium is a huge financial failure with albatross wings. Within their argument is no expectation the stadium will ever pay its way. They fail to explain how they will prevent the thing from falling deeper into the red and sucking up our money.
    Of course, this rationalising cannot last. The bills will continually roll in.

  34. Hype O'Thermia

    They may have a point, in theory. All the other facilities WERE and ARE paid for wholly or in part by ratepayers. The big difference is that they were and are affordable. They were paid for when they could be afforded, not before. They were paid for out of income that could be reasonably earned & rates-paid without sleight-of-hand with the accounts. They did not accrue greater and greater debt year after year after year, necessitating greater and greater calls on the resources of the city to keep up with interest let alone pay them off.
    Big difference really.

  35. Elizabeth

    ### ch9.co.nz November 13, 2012 – 5:33pm
    Stadium beginning a push to make the most of its facilities
    Forsyth Barr Stadium’s new hi-tech video system cost $1.3 million. And the stadium that lost more than $3 million last year is beginning a push to make the most of its revenue-making facilities. The man who heads the stadium says Stadium Vision is one such facility, and he has predicted a tight time frame for it to turn a profit.
    Video

  36. Elizabeth

    Rodeo blues ain’t denim…

    At ODT Online:

    Once again pathetic catering at stadium
    By macfod on Mon, 19 Nov 2012
    Why should I be surprised that nothing changes in Dunedin? Unless it was a ploy again to herd us like cattle at the rodeo event on Saturday! You have to ask why again we are met with long lines of people wishing to buy overpriced drinks with just one outlet open to serve almost 7000 people. {continues}

    Reply:

    Word spreads fast
    Submitted by MissB on Mon, 19/11/2012 – 10:35am.
    Heaps of comments all over Facebook and other social media about what a great night and good event, but all of them ended with same comments about the terrible food/beverage organisation and dreadful sound quality. Lucky tickets were so badly priced…would hate to think what would have happened had the crowd been larger.

  37. Phil

    I love the standard stadium response to these events. You have to admire their cheek if nothing else. Apparently any problem with lighting or sound (which covers about 95% of the complaints) are the event holder’s problem and not the venue operator’s. What an amazing run of bad luck that every single event organiser who had held an event inside the new stadium has brought with them a terrible sound system. Nothing to do with the stadium of course.

  38. Peter

    Is there any sound system that can manage a building with bad acoustics? If not, the sound problems will never go away.

  39. Elizabeth

    Ian Taylor, never quite out of the stadium picture.

    Stadium hosts ‘very exciting’ research exercise
    http://www.odt.co.nz/campus/university-otago/236490/stadium-hosts-very-exciting-research-exercise

  40. Anonymous

    Yep, they’re using kids again to promote their stadium. This time they’ve got them lined up like sheep and being run about for an academic’s multi-purpose promotion. It looks even worse in print. No thanks for the stadium-sponsoring paper for pimping it but thanks to the photographer for capturing that smug look.

  41. amanda

    Surprising it is not on the front page; if anyone wants any free promotion, here it is, just make sure the stadium is part of it.

  42. Elizabeth

    ### ODT Online Thu, 29 Nov 2012
    Stadium use: Dog walking, dope growing suggested
    By Rebecca Fox
    How would you like to walk your dog, graze your sheep, or stroll across the roof of Forsyth Barr Stadium? These are some of the suggestions people have made to help the Dunedin City Council increase revenue from and community use of the struggling stadium. Last month, Mayor Dave Cull called for suggestions from the public on how to make the most of the stadium People were invited to make their feedback on a website or through a survey sent to the 625 members of the People’s Panel.
    Read more

  43. Calvin Oaten

    Thanks Elizabeth for making available the ‘report’ as will be presented to Council. In particular the panel set up to analyse the submissions. From my observations it seems they are drawing a very long bow to suggest a majority are in favour of the status quo. If the people were presented with a very simple, clear outline of the financial ramifications to the ratepayers themselves, and the ongoing effect to the greater Dunedin City facilities, then the responses might well have been very different. That, of course, has been the problem all along. It is going to take someone with the wisdom of Solomon to come up with the proper solution to this. And that is a quality that is singularly lacking around that table, with the exception perhaps of Cr Vandervis who is regularly vilified for exposing their ineptness.

  44. Mike

    Yes thanks I couldn’t find it on the DCC’s web site (search seemed broken) but you posted just as I needed it – as usual some of what I posted quietly disappeared – apparently pointing out that some are calling for public floggings or court action is too much for the ODT as is pointing out that the ratepayers sure seem to have a need to vent and the DCC should ask their opinions more often

    • Elizabeth

      Took a while to find, various searches completely not linked… would have thought ‘people’s panel’ might have yielded straight off. But no. Buried deliberately? (paranoia, what are we paying for next….)

  45. Peter

    I liked how those 24 people felt the ‘original’ stadium supporters could cough up with their own money. Quite. I haven’t seen the suggestions, in toto, but I kind of get the impression there were plenty of withering/tongue-in-cheek suggestions ‘to make the stadium work’. What a farce. Hilarious – except for the waste of money and lost opportunities.
    As an aside, we went to the concert put on in Lawrence on Saturday to celebrate the 25th Anniversary of Tuapeka Gold Print which employs 70 people in a town of 400. It was held in natural amphitheatre at the back of the main street. Fabulous production, very professional, done by a troupe from Auckland, I think, a mixture of operatic and pop, and free entry as the costs were paid for by the owners of Tuapeka Gold Print and, maybe, also the couple from Rotorua (the Romanes) who have restored the Presbyterian Church, but who, at least, organised the entertainment.
    The points I’m getting to is that the sound quality was perfect – unlike that other place – and entry was free through the genuine generosity of these forementioned, well-off people connected to the town and done as a ‘thank you’ to the people who live there. What a stark contrast to the stadium pricks who have rorted our city for their own ends, paying nothing, taking everything, and leaving us to pay. May they rot in hell.

  46. Calvin Oaten

    I’m happy, they published my submission in full which surprised me. However, I notice that the ODT in its piece totally ignored the considerable number of suggestions that it be closed. Doesn’t fit its agenda I suspect. The panel will mutter ‘rhubarb rhubarb’ over it and then note a lot of valuable suggestions, but implement nothing. The fact is that everything that has been suggested (except closing) only prolongs the agony and almost without exception will require more costs.

  47. Hype O'Thermia

    I’m reeling at the suggestions that (short version) use of stadium be free so it could be used more.
    Some countries pay for blood and organs. How about inviting a “harvesting” team from one of them to come and set up then herd ratepayers through to donate half their blood and at least 1 kidney and cornea per person, proceeds going to facilitate DCC spending in the manner to which it has become accustomed.

  48. Hype O'Thermia

    Oh wow, now on the radio DCC’s looking at offering an “incentive fund” to bribe acts to come to the stadium. That’ll get us out of debt in a hurry – in the Through The Looking-Glass world of stadium “reasoning”:
    When drowning in debt borrow and spend more and more and more.

    • Elizabeth

      ### radionz.co.nz Updated 29 minutes ago
      RNZ News
      Incentives fund mooted for new stadium
      Dunedin City Council may create an incentives fund to lure big acts to the city’s struggling new stadium. The idea was recommended by a council subcommittee on Friday which discussed almost 500 public submissions on ways to make the venue profitable. Stadium chief executive Darren Burden said Dunedin is having trouble getting concert promoters to bring big acts to the city because other stadiums are offering large [“city-funded”] cash incentives for logistics and ticket promotion. Councillors agreed Dunedin might have to follow the same path and called for an investigation into creating an incentives fund. The subcommittee also recommended that the Dunedin Venues management company explore ways to improve the stadium’s [“maligned”] sound system, look at running a special lottery and replacing the turf with artificial [“grass”]. Cr Lee Vandervis suggested the [“fragile”] grass is the biggest barrier to the stadium being used more and said it must be changed urgently. Dunedin stadium opened in August 2011 for the Rugby World Cup.
      RNZ Link

      *Reporting by Ian Telfer (his words from the audio in brackets).

      Audio: RNZ News – News bulletin recorded at 12 pm
      From Hourly News at 12:00 pm on 30 Nov 2012 (17′00″)

  49. amanda

    The DCC is not worried about making the stadium pay; they just have to convince that the stadium is ‘working’, and if there are acts playing at the stadium then it is ‘working’, no matter that it is costing us more money. This is their logic, it’s all about important stakeholders and councillors wanting re-election next year not having egg on their faces so they can bleat that the stadium is a community ‘asset’. That way Hudson, Brown and Noone can go into next year’s election and tell us all the story about what brilliant fiscal geniuses they are.

  50. amanda

    Don’t forget old men Hudson and Brown are in the majority cabal on council and so run the show and have gormless Cull under their thumb.

  51. amanda

    That events fund is only to ensure that the same old ninnies get back on council and can avoid being called the fiscal incompetents they are; Crs Noone, Brown, Hudson, Bezett, Collins, Acklin, Weatherall, as usual, I am looking at you!

  52. amanda

    As usual, which councillors agreed? More specifics please media, we are voting on these councillors next year and we cannot depend on them to tell us what they have done politically, so we rely on the media to keep us informed; especially as our local daily is so unconcerned about telling voters how councillors voting record.

  53. Hype O'Thermia

    Build an unnecessary stadium with borrowed money, go over budget, pay for it to be used – anything wrong with this scheme?
    (Careful how you answer, you don’t want to be called a Naysayer do you?)

  54. Peter

    Great. Look for ways ‘to make the stadium work’ by spending yet more money on it. Back to the ratepayers, of course. Not those who pushed for it.
    Basically, the ideas from the public were a waste of time and they have gone back to promoting old ideas already canvassed. It’s called ‘consultation’.

    • Elizabeth

      I used to think there were some bright people in Dunedin, but the theory isn’t panning out except for those of us ‘surveyed’ that said hock the bloody thing off. SELL.

  55. Hype O'Thermia

    I think there are a great many people who can’t get their heads around the idea that having MORE activities in the Fubar does not mean more [any] profit, so they tried hard to come up with more things that could be held there. The DCC’s clutching at the “pay people to come to it” fund scheme shows they haven’t understood either.

  56. Peter

    The ‘pay people to come to it’ scenario is probably the biggest admission yet that the stadium is a flop…. and is going to continue to be until it is closed….whereupon it will be ‘officially’ designated as a flop.

  57. Peter

    Yet another Garrick Tremain classic. That was of course Farry’s line….and he believed it. Or did he?

  58. Anonymous

    It is interesting Garrick used “beggars” instead of buggers… that pretty much sums up how the Good Old Boys, most of their Middlemen and a couple of their Stadium Councillors would think of this city’s ratepayers sitting around dreaming up new visions to gut its financial future.

  59. Phil

    This “incentives fund” is a double hit. Throwing cash at concert promoters is over and above the zero venue hire agreement which appears to be standard for the stadium now with any major booking. So we have public money paying for the venue operating costs, while receiving no income for the use of the venue, and then public money being given to the event promoter to entice them to come so far south to a limited audience and greater inconvenience. The published reports about the scheme seem to have overlooked the venue hire incentive deals already in place. This is an addition, not a replacement.

    • Elizabeth

      I look at the members of the subcommittee and despair. Not one of them gets my vote in October 2013, but what’s new.

      ### ODT Online Sat, 1 Dec 2012
      Stadium events incentive plan call
      By Debbie Porteous
      Dunedin city councillors have recommended the company that runs Forsyth Barr Stadium establish an events procurement strategy and investigate setting up an incentives fund for attracting events to the venue. Increasing events and other usage was the main suggestion from respondents to a recent council survey on how to increase revenue from the stadium and cut costs and how the community could make the most of the venue. After considering what Dunedin Venues Management Ltd (DVML) was already doing in response to many of the public’s suggestions, a council subcommittee of Mayor Dave Cull and councillors Syd Brown, Kate Wilson, Chris Staynes and Lee Vandervis yesterday made five further recommendations to DVML and its parent company, Dunedin City Holdings Ltd (DCHL), based on the public feedback. The subcommittee recommended they be part of the companies’ review of the community use and affordability of the stadium.
      Read more

  60. Hype O'Thermia

    They were going to offer, after in-depth investigations and a report from consultants on price and availability, an additional incentive in the form of 15 virgins, however doubts were raised by certain councillors about the sustainability of this should the combination of free hire and free money entice larger than expected numbers of promoters.

  61. Anonymous

    And where would they find 15 virgins in South Dunedin anyway?

  62. Calvin Oaten

    Elizabeth, are you having trouble with your keyboard?
    I couldn’t help but notice on your posting “Don’t worry live in Dunedin” and something about sheep?

  63. Anonymous

    I ran Elizabeth’s post through a translator. It is probably best left in its original form for appropriateness. I do agree entirely with the message. What I don’t agree with is some sort of Good Times reporter parroting b.s. research, suggesting Dunedin is full of worriers and we should all just accept the violations like a good little bunch of cowed citizens. Note you will find “Hotel predicted to drive Chinese tourism boom” in his history.

    I smell a Head Spook. Worse, there is that subtle whiff of Eion in there too.

  64. Calvin Oaten

    Anon; do you whiff Eion as in E OO lives in Queenstown’s Alcatraz?

  65. Anonymous

    Eau de toilette of Queenstown. The level of concentrates is usually found to be higher when applied to the Stadium Councillors, although not as overpowering as that currently splashed on by that fella from Dunedin Tourism.

  66. Mike

    Has anyone else twigged that there’s a solution to the DCC not being able to afford to put seats in bus stops because of the stadium debt …. and the problem of all those empty seats in the stadium during rugby games …..

  67. Elizabeth

    ### DScene 5.12.12
    Challenges just keep on coming (pages 2 & 4)
    By Wilma McCorkindale
    As Christmas approaches DScene continues its series reflecting on who it has been a big year for.. This week Wilma McCorkindale speaks to Darren Burden, who this year took on arguably the toughest job in town, running the company that runs Forsyth Barr Stadium. […] At the initial stadium trust launch the sentiment was summed up by a couple of people Burden overheard as they were leaving the room. ‘‘They said, it was an absolutely fantastic idea but it would never happen. So that was for me was the challenge.’’ Burden said to a certain extent, the green light for stadium construction signalled the end of the challenge. In fact, that was only the beginning. Burden reckoned he had a few few big years to come yet. Now in his new chief executive role he was focused on responding to the negativity around stadium finances. ‘‘One of the things that I obviously want to achieve in this financial year is to make a significant improvement in the finances of the company. {continues}
    #bookmark #bookmark

  68. Peter

    I had to smile to myself with Darren Burden’s ‘risk’ of tossing in his job with Arrow International and moving south, from Christchurch, before the final stadium decision was ever voted on. Was the decison, whether to proceed or not, ever in doubt? Farry and his henchmen would have been able to allay those ‘risky fears’ for him. It seems Darren was more interested in personal risk than the risks for the city, which have come to fruition.

  69. Elizabeth

    ”There is still a good deal of hard work required. However, we believe the Highlanders have a sustainable business model based out of Forsyth Barr Stadium.”

    ### ODT Online Sat, 22 Dec 2012
    Rugby: Stadium, better record behind profit
    By Steve Hepburn
    The Highlanders have logged a financial turnaround of $300,000 enabling them to announce a small profit yesterday. They reported a profit of $71,000 for the financial year ended August 31, 2012, but it does not appear to have brought the franchise any closer to finding a private partner. The Highlanders turning a profit looked a forlorn hope a few years ago, with the team in the gloom both on and off the field. But they have gone into the black thanks to a new stadium and better performances on the field.
    Read more

    One more time, let’s sink the boot into Carisbrook…
    Not the people, not the professional ruggerheads’ fraud and corruption.

    Happy happy ratepayers and residents footing the new venue bills.

  70. Peter

    The ‘profit’ is bullshit…. of course. We are paying through DVML, for their advertising for the said games that have made a small ‘profit’. Commercial Manager, Guy Hedderwick would know about this, wouldn’t he?
    Never mind. A handy falsehood faithfully reported by the ODT.Questions unasked.Typical.

  71. ormk

    Any business that extorts a third party to pay their overheads is in good shape to make a profit. As someone whose ancestors actually are from the highlands, I find the use of the highlander identity by this team to be inappropriate and extremely offensive.

  72. Peter

    ormk. Maybe you would be more happy with Highwaymen? (As in bushrangers)

  73. Rob Hamlin

    Carisbook’s still in perfect nick as Yule approaches fellas. McPravda have not even bothered to publish any white noise with regard to this miraculous self-maintaining status over the last two months, despite some prodding.

    Maybe the next McPravda article on the topic, when in finally comes, will actually give us the real reason for this state of affairs. After all, we are well into our six week annual rugger holiday – and a new season of thrills, spills, stings and related announcements to the plebs beckons

    The McPravda article today had some telling passages. Words are important to an experienced mcpravdologist. I have capitalised the critical one here:

    “Despite the improved financial performance, the Highlanders are unlikely to go anywhere near PRIVATE investment.

    The Highlanders were not part of the process to seek PRIVATE ownership of Super 15 franchises. The Hurricanes and Crusaders have both awarded licences to PRIVATE partners in recent weeks.

    Laidlaw said, although he could not speak for the NZRU, the Highlanders franchise was never a candidate for going into the PRIVATISATION process, and nothing had changed.”

    When our glorious new stadium was being ”funded” PRIVATE was used to describe the odd scraps of cash that were not sourced from local government – the DCC, DCHL and ORC. With the lion’s share coming from DCC/DCHL. In addition to revenue, even central government funding was counted as PRIVATE investment.

    So if the Highlanders aren’t going anywhere near PRIVATE investment, that only leaves ………………… , and more specifically …………………….. and absolutely specifically ………………………… (rocket scientists & well heeled open letter writers only, fill in the blanks).

  74. Hype O'Thermia

    S’why we need S’whamizdat If.

  75. Calvin Oaten

    Rob; I’ll have a go at filling in the blanks. …MUGS…., ….RATE PAYERS ….., ANYONE ELSE BUT RUGBY OFFICIALDOM ….

  76. Russell Garbutt

    The full page Ian Taylor (I can spell his name OK) was interesting in a number of ways.

    Firstly Ian must be feeling somewhat powerless in that he has had to revert to running an ad to get his point listened to. So he must feel that he is not part of the inner group of the people that really matter round town. Not sure that he will like that.

    Secondly, he was part of that inner group for a little while in that he was a member of the Stadium Group for a while until he decided to leave. Did that endear him to that group that continued on?

    But that doesn’t really matter much.

    The point that Ian makes is a good one, in that it seems the tendering process for the supply of AV services for the wretched stadium was flawed, was unbalanced and could be seen or perceived as being unfair at one end of the spectrum and part of the OB’s network at the other. There is no way that one tenderer should be obliged to meet some requirements and another, a quite different set of requirements or none at all.

    That in itself should be enough to warrant deep concern from the DCC, but of course we know that DVML is set up to run in such a way as to encourage the governance and management of DVML and DVL to believe that they can operate as a private company but without the pesky troubles of having to pay costs – they know the ratepayers are always standing at the bottom of the cliff waiting to have their wallets pillaged again.

    Ian’s concern seems to be that he deserves answers to legitimate questions, and it is here that one has to wonder just why Ian thinks that anything will change. The coots that run DVML and DVL are mainly not even in Dunedin. They don’t care what Ian thinks, and they don’t care what anyone else thinks either, There will be no response from the Board of DVML or DVL (the same people are on both), nor will there be a response from the Management of DVML. Nor will there be a response from the DCC because they are at arm’s distance.

    I have an issue with Ian’s views on the stadium and he knows this well. I think that he should start to recognise that the money that the Dunedin ratepayers have had stolen (and I use this term on purpose) from them to build a monument to ego and futility, would have been far far better spent on genuine investment into our future. The stadium will never provide a return, but it is more like the concrete version of the Emperor’s clothes. Not much point.

    The only way that things will change in Dunedin will be when the real power is wrested from the GOB’s or the Tartan Mafia (whatever term we choose to use for these voracious greedy shadowy figures that pull the strings) by electing people determined to make a change and who will start to bring to account these afore-mentioned GOBs. All these people that sit round the Council table warming seats and looking forward to a free lunch need to go.

    Finally, a huge start has been made by the appointment of Paul Orders, who seems to me to have no other agenda other than to run the DCC well, and that is a major point of difference between him and what has gone before.

    • Elizabeth

      In which Mr Darren Burden doesn’t sound convincing.

      ### ODT Online Mon, 24 Dec 2012
      Response to stadium letter ‘encouraging’
      By John Gibb
      Dunedin businessman Ian Taylor is heartened by the ”huge support” he has gained for his open letter to the Forsyth Barr Stadium’s board. In the open letter, published in Saturday’s Otago Daily Times, Mr Taylor said he had on ”numerous occasions” sought answers from the Dunedin Venues Management Ltd (DVML) board about the awarding of the stadium’s preferred supplier contract for audio services. He had since received dozens of supportive messages, and been directly approached by many people, in a ”really, really encouraging response”. Otago ratepayers had funded the stadium and it was expected ”local companies would be the first to benefit”. He was concerned the record of a company such as Strawberry Sound had been ignored and the contract awarded to an ”outside company” that did not exist before July, despite a requirement for Strawberry Sound to show it had operated for at least five years, the letter said. DVML chief executive Darren Burden said it was ”strange to say the least” Mr Taylor had complained about a ”deafening” silence from DVML.
      Read more

  77. Calvin Oaten

    Russell, you are absolutely right. The starting point is as you say, Paul Orders. A man with no ‘skin in the game’ who is smart enough to get to grips with the problems. He seriously needs a Mayor with ‘balls’ who is not contaminated by the GOB/ Tartan Mafia. Then he needs a sufficient number of people around the table who will support the actions necessary to get this city off the floor. That of course comes back to the people who will have the power on election day. If the mayoral candidates are up to it, (and I firmly believe Lee Vandervis is) with the experience and strength to do the job, we are in with a chance. If not, then I think it will be a case of “last one out turn off the lights.”

  78. Pedant

    So desperate to improve the sound quality that they are now trying to hang speakers from the trusses….

  79. Anonymous

    The irony of complaining about a “deafening silence” with respect to the A/V contract is not lost. The sound quality at the stadium varies from deafening to silence.

  80. Peter

    The ‘Sounds of Silence’ – a frequent event at the stadium – even without Simon and Garfunkel.

  81. Phil

    I thought there was nothing wrong with the stadium acoustics. According at Malcolm, DVML, Cr Vandervis and Cr Acklin, the stadium was behaving exactly as it was supposed to and that any problems experienced by patrons were due entirely to poor quality equipment bought in by event promoters. (EVERY single event promoter since the stadium opened, as it has turned out) So why would they need to be mounting permanent speakers ? On the other hand, maybe the stadium is behaving exactly like you would expect a fully enclosed concrete box with several hundred right-angled concrete edges to behave ?

  82. Elizabeth

    ### ODT Online Tue, 15 Jan 2013
    Stadium parks ‘always’ going to be charged for
    By Vaughan Elder
    The company running Forsyth Barr Stadium hopes to make a ”significant sum of money” from the introduction of charges for car parking outside the stadium. Dunedin Venues Management Ltd operations manager Coryn Huddy said after coming to an arrangement with Wilson Parking it had introduced charges last month for the nearly 300 parks outside the eastern side of the stadium.
    Read more
    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/242534/stadium-parks-always-going-be-charged

  83. Hype O'Thermia

    That’s got to be the slowest “coming to an arrangement” in history, either that or it’s a porkie that Stadium parks were ‘always’ going to be charged for.
    Before Wilsons appeared in Dunedin I was aware of their reputation further north as ruthless rapacious gougers. I never did work out why the DCC gave up managing (and getting all the revenue from) our own parking lots.

    Is it like awarding the stadium sound contract to an outside firm: the council is heavily weighted with incompetents, councillors were voted in by Dunedin people, therefore Dunedin people are too incompetent to be entrusted with work for the DCC?

  84. Anonymous

    Wilsons Parking had signs up at 56 Parry St and on the adjacent empty lot for nearly 2 years after the building at 56 Parry St was purchased by Council during the SH88 realignment debacle. Neither site ever operated as a parking facility.

  85. Hype O'Thermia

    Establishing “squatters rights”?

  86. Anonymous

    Further to the banks post on November 10th- Contact Energy half-yearly profit up 29% or $88M… soooo, in the Corporate World that means cutting jobs by 10% or in this case throwing out another 100 staff.

  87. Phil

    The whole DCC carparking is a real mess. Initially Parking Services owned and operated the buildings. Then they decided to contract out the operations, to Wilsons. Finally they decided to transfer the ownership of the properties to City Property. They now appear, for some weird reason, on the City Property books as “Investment Property”. So now City Property owns them. They lease them to Parking Services, who does nothing except contract out the operation of the parking to Wilsons. As an “Investment Property”, City Property makes a “profit” from its lease fee from Parking Services. Parking Services recovers that extra cost, together with their own “profit” by increasing the Wilsons Parking lease fee accordingly. And who pays for those increased charges ? The ratepayer who already pays for the costs of City Property and Parking Services out of the general salaries fund. Wasn’t Paul Orders supposed to stop the ridiculous internal profit scheme ?

    • Paul Orders has been fairly quiet lately – a few things thrown on his desk to give him heart attacks. Needs to up his profile in election year as the calm and constructive CE.

  88. Hype O'Thermia

    With a song in their hearts – a Tom Lehrer song, no less – they play Council-and-very-close-friends Daisychain:
    “…I got it from Agnes
    She got it from Jim
    We all agree it must have been
    Louise who gave it to him
    Now she got it from Harry
    Who got it from Marie
    And ev’rybody knows that Marie
    Got it from me…………”

  89. Anonymous

    Further to the banks post on November 10th – Solid Energy reported it was worth over $2B and now comes to an end owing $400M. Over 400 jobs are on the line and up to 1200 could be lost. Its CEO was paid over $1M a year and is still likely to receive a golden handshake from the government as all this occurs… your local National minister is Michael Woodhouse, your National spokesperson is Bill English and their boss is John Key.

    So hundreds of jobs lost… CEO gets a truck-load of cash to drive it into a pit and a bucket-load more when the sinkhole opens up. We’ve had and have directors and CEOs in Dunedin driving up the value of public assets so they can borrow more in debt. And being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars while a few Stakeholders gorge from the public trough.

    How much longer before Dave Cull appears on the front page of the Otago Daily Times to announce they’ve discovered a billion dollars in debt which is going to cause the unexpected collapse of his corrupt city council?

    Because that’s what these buggers are doing to Dunedin.

    {Link: http://www.odt.co.nz/news/business/246689/solid-energy-talking-banks -Eds}

    • Ohhh, wait wait—don’t give creepycrawly Woodlouse ideas beyond his ‘list station’, he’s a minister outside Cabinet so far….

      The quivering good news is NZ is taking the National Party down in its estimation, at last. Bad news: this doesn’t mean there’s anything useful to replace National.

      In the same way there’s nothing useful “yet!” to replace the fudging ‘Cull Council’.

  90. Anonymous

    Further to the banks post on November 10th- Meet today’s chief executive officer:

    Telecom employs more than 7000 workers. The general mood among staff was “if we are going to do it, let’s get on with it”, Moutter said.

    When you’re paid a multi-million dollar salary and given a big pay-out to leave your job, you can so understand and connect with your people…….

    What a winner.

    Telecom to cut hundreds of jobs
    Tom Pullar-Strecker
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/8341703/Concern-at-Telecom-cutback

  91. Anonymous

    It doesn’t make the ratepayer a penny but neither is it a burden on the city. Did this suggestion make the list? Either way the stadium has made the perfect back drop to this seller’s car auction. The parking. The angles. The colour. The stadium. Lovely.

    Now if only we could find a genuine buyer for the damned stadium.

    http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/jeep/auction-569031672.htm

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