Waterfront Hotel #Dunedin (Applicant names?)

How do I make a submission on the resource consent application?
Go to DCC webpage.

Tweet (Sat 08 Sep 20:59):

@whatifdunedin Waterfront Hotel #Dunedin – who’s behind it ? bit.ly/QaNO92 bit.ly/QaNRBN Jing Song of #Queenstown and “wifey”… #BrashCash

[Thanks to Phil for the jigsaw piece – http://www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/news/5600153/Couple-hold-lavish-wedding]

Related Posts and Comments:
7.9.12 Waterfront hotel: DCC to notify resource consent application
23.6.12 Mis(t)apprehension: website visits, not bookings?
16.5.12 Dunedin Hotel

Posted by Elizabeth Kerr


Filed under Business, Construction, DCC, Economics, Hot air, Media, People, Project management, Property, Site, Town planning, Urban design

82 responses to “Waterfront Hotel #Dunedin (Applicant names?)

  1. Elizabeth

    “Dunedin Hotel”

    Those in the picture so far, names derived from documents received (not including documents for which DCC links have broken):

    The couple:
    Jing Song (accountant; senior advisor at Betterways Advisory Ltd, Queenstown; formerly of Dunedin) http://nz.linkedin.com/pub/j-s/55/895/860
    Ping Cao (said to own major construction business in China)

    Lizhen Ning of China (Jing Song’s father)
    Yue Song of Nelson (Jing Song’s mother)

    Arthur Barnett Properties Ltd, Dunedin (owner of 41 Wharf St) – director, Timothy (Tim) Barnett

    Betterways Advisory Limited, Dunedin http://www.betterways.co.nz/ – director: Stephen Rodgers (Dunedin); Queenstown Office: Jo Wright, Jing Song

    Stephen (Steve) Rodgers of Rogers Law Ltd, Dunedin http://www.rodgers-law.com/

    Philip (Phil) Page of Gallaway Cook Allan, Lawyers, Dunedin http://www.gcalegal.co.nz/ [NZCO refs: GCA; CAG]

    Don Anderson of Patterson Pitts Ltd, trading as Anderson & Co Ltd, Dunedin http://www.ppgroup.co.nz/ (application, urban design statement)

    Abley Transportation Consultants Ltd, Christchurch http://www.abley.com/ (integrated transport assessment / transportation report) – directors: Stephen Abley, Joseph Durdin, Ross Major, Brian Wood

    Marshall Day Acoustics Ltd, Christchurch marshallday.com (desktop reverse sensitivity study / acoustic report) – report by Aaron Staples/Jon Farren; directors: Michael Dowsett, Jon Farren, Peter Fearnside, Curt Robinson

    Truescape Ltd, Christchurch http://www.truescape.com/contact_nz (simulations) – directors: Robert Campbell, Samuel Chaffey

    MWH New Zealand Ltd, Dunedin http://www.mwhglobal.com/nz (services report) – report by Dominika Biziak-Kochan

    IGNITE Architects Ltd, Auckland ignitearchitects.com (architectural statement, wind assessment) – managing director, Jeremy Whelan

    Arcon Projects Ltd, Dunedin http://www.arconprojects.com/ (shading assessment) – directors: Craig McAuliffe, Angela Haig-McAuliffe

    Angela Middleton, archaeologist of Dunedin (application for archaeological authority, archaeological assessment)

    Site Hazards: ???
    Geotechnical Report: ???
    Engineering Report: ???

    Eion Edgar of Queenstown
    Michael Hill of Queenstown
    Dave Cull, Mayor of Dunedin / Dunedin City Council
    Paul Orders, chief executive, Dunedin City Council
    Hamish Saxton, chief executive, Tourism Dunedin

    [lists to be updated]

  2. Anonymous

    Another little curiousity clicks into place. Patterson Pitts just materialised in its current Moray Place office one day. It must have had a significant financial backer because EVERYTHING was in place and going suddenly. Staff, technology, signage, the whole nine yards… just appeared beside Orange Cafe like they had been there forever. It’s unusual to see a business pop up like that in Dunedin due to the costs and organisation involved. Only the Dunedin Corrupt Council with its unrestricted access to public money comes close to that efficiency in recent times.

  3. Anonymous

    Julian Smith, Allied Press. Owner, Arthur Barnett Ltd

    • Elizabeth

      Arthur Barnett (Smith) comprises several companies, see the co-directors of each. However, it must be said Tim Barnett is his own man with his own company.

      • Elizabeth

        ### ch9.co.nz September 12, 2012 – 5:58pm
        Your word on the proposed hotel
        Plans to build Dunedin’s tallest building on Wharf Street were publicly notified last week. The proposed waterfront hotel and residential apartments will be 27 storeys high. New developments in Dunedin have a history of being controversial, with the stadium and Chinese Garden being cases in point. So the 9 Local News Word on the Street team hit the Octagon to ask if you support the idea of a big hotel on the waterfront.

  4. Calvin Oaten

    I think the time to crack out the champagne bottles is once they have pre sold the 164 upmarket apartments. This is always an essential before a spade goes in the ground. In a word, a “boondoggle” for no obvious reason other than to butter up the council for some reason not immediately apparent.

    • Elizabeth

      There was wide disbelief that Farry & Co would pull off building the new stadium too. Disbelief is unhealthy in terms of resource management, with a council that’s desperate enough to think hotel rooms in a condom at the Steamer Basin is “Dunedin’s future”.

  5. The difference between the Stadium and the Hotel is that the Hotel project risks investors money, not ratepayers money. As has been shown with the St Clair Esplanade development, the original investors can lose money, but the project is left for the benefit of the city.

  6. Phil

    Potentially. But wait until the sweetener deals start popping up. Road realignments, taxi and bus parking bays, water and rates relief, payouts to local industries for reverse adverse effects. Think the developer is going to pay for that ? But, if DCC doesn’t front up, no hotel.

  7. Ro

    Elizabeth, I have been rootling round the district plan and can’t find the rules for the industrial zone – can you lead me to them please?

  8. Stu

    There’s no height restriction for industrial zone 1 (see the concrete tower and Bradken’s for the highest buildings in that area). That zone stops on the Harbour side of Wharf St.

  9. Ro

    Yes, I know that. I’m wanting to know whether the application falls into the has-to-be-consented, but with restrictions or the may-be-declined in toto sort

    • Elizabeth

      Ro, good question, best put in a call to City Planning, contact Lianne Darby, ph 03 477 4000, if you have any questions about the application. However, the application documents set out the Dunedin City District Plan considerations:

      For yours and others’ quick reference here are the relevant zone map and Industrial 1 zone requirements:

      District Plan, Volume 2Dunedin City Zone Map 49 (PDF, 406.1 KB)

      District Plan, Volume 1 > Zone Provisions > Section 10: Industry > 10.5 Industrial 1 Zone – Rules (pages 10:10 – 10:15)

      City Planning at http://www.dunedin.govt.nz
      Current notified applications:
      Betterways Advisory Limited (LUC-2012-212) Closes: 05/10/2012

      View all Application documents here, and in particular the Application itself.

      From the application description provided by City Planning:

      “The subject site is zoned Industrial 1. The general area is shown on the Hazards Register as being reclaimed land, at risk to seismic activity. Commercial residential activity and residential activity are considered to be non-complying activities pursuant to Rule 10.5.5(ii) of the District Plan.”

      Rule 10.5.5 Non-Complying Activities
      “(ii) Any activity not specifically identified as permitted, controlled or discretionary by the rules in this zone or in the rules of Sections 17 to 22 of this Plan is non-complying. This rule does not apply to activities identified as permitted, controlled or discretionary in the rules of Sections 13 to 16 of the Plan, regardless of where in the zone those activities are undertaken.”

  10. Ro

    These seem highly germaine to me:

    p.1: industry encompasses a wide range of activities from the receipt of raw material to the dispatch or use in another process or disposal of any product or waste material. It includes manufacturing, fabricating, processing, packing or associated storage of goods. Industry is a significant contributor to the sustainability and economic wellbeing of the City.

    Issue 10.1.3
    The location of non-industrial activities in industrial areas may adversely affect the establishment and operation of industrial activities.
    Objective: 10.2.3 Policy: 10.3.2
    Industrial activities can give rise to adverse effects beyond the site and as a consequence it is appropriate to group industrial activities and to exclude from such areas incompatible activities, including retail activities.

    Policy 10.3.2
    Exclude activities not part of or associated with industrial activities from the Industrial 1 zone.
    [Amended by Variation 8: 15/12/01] Objective: 10.2.3
    Method: 4.4.1
    Areas have been identified as being suitable for industrial activities for three main reasons:
    (i) The availability of infrastructure (service and transportation) with a high capacity.
    (ii) To separate industry from other areas where there is a higher expectation of amenity.
    (iii) To provide an area where industries are free to operate with lower environmental standards within the zone providing that the standards of the neighbouring zone are met at the boundary of that zone.
    The location of non-industrial activities in the Industrial Zone impacts on the sustainable management of the City and will lead to the inefficient use of the physical resources available in the zone. Those undertaking or visiting activities not associated with industry can have higher expectations of amenity than that normally found in the zone. This will put unreasonable pressure both on immediate neighbours and cumulatively on the activities throughout the zone that are dependent on being located in such an area.

  11. Ro

    I note as well:
    “10.5 Industrial 1 Zone – Rules
    Rule 10.5.1 Permitted Activities
    “The following activities are permitted activities provided that they comply with the conditions in Rule 10.5.2:
    “Service Activity.
    “Retail Activity in conjunction with an industrial activity or service activity provided that:
    “(a) The retail activity is complementary to and an integral part of the “industrial or service activity.
    “(b) The maximum area of gross floor space for retail activities shall not exceed 10% of the total floor space of the premises.
    “Recreational Activity.
    “Residential Activity in that part of the zone located between Hanover and Frederick Streets and also fronting Harrow Street.”

    I read this to say the residential suites within this development are therefore not permitted activities; and bars, restaurants and the rental of bedrooms would have to be limited to 10% of the site?

  12. Ro

    Sorry – forgot:
    Industrial Tourist Activity, provided that where retail activities are undertaken Rule 10.5.1(iii) applies.

  13. Elizabeth

    Online (work) references for Jing Song (as sighted by What if?) have been removed by ‘the powers’…


  14. Elizabeth

    ### ODT Online Thu, 4 Oct 2012
    Speculation mounts over hotel backers
    By Chris Morris
    A Queenstown woman married to a Chinese construction business owner is being linked to the $100 million waterfront hotel planned for Dunedin.
    Read more

  15. Peter

    I think we can take it that the cover is well and truly blown.
    ‘Neither confirm nor deny.’ Now is the time for a bit of research.

  16. Peter

    Helping others, Elizabeth? Why help others if you can help yourself?

  17. Josie Crawley

    Are there any completed “against” submissions available online etc. to help people objecting navigate the resource consent speak? Rather last day I know!

  18. chris

    Just constructed! A wonderful new hotel at 563 Peninsular Rd, Kelvin Heights.

  19. Hype O'Thermia

    Lovely! The sight of PROGRESS is even more wonderful than looking out the windows at the landscape, isn’t it?

  20. Anonymous

    That is awesome chris. Can someone get a message to Eion Edgar and Michael Hill they can now begin development of their own glassbox. They can use Queenstown – also known as Eiontown – as the test case to determine how people react to this eyesore in their neighbourhood.

    Otago Daily Times: You should really go there with that picture. It would sell papers. Assuming you’re still in it for that reason.

  21. Ro

    Excellent job chris

  22. chris

    TMA-4 appears at Dunedin’s waterfront
    TMA-4 appears at Dunedin's waterfront

    • Elizabeth

      Truescape and IGNITE are no competition for you guys.

      • Elizabeth

        “This bold step forward is a first major step in the development of Dunedin by the private sector for over a decade.” –Tim Barnett

        ### ODT Online Sat, 6 Oct 2012
        New hotel just a start
        By Chris Morris
        The $100 million hotel planned for Dunedin’s waterfront could be joined by other new buildings if the Dunedin City Council gives the go-ahead to the controversia tower, a property owner believes. The claim from Tim Barnett – the man who sold the Wharf St site to the hotel developers – was among more than 400 public submissions on the hotel received by yesterday’s deadline. By late yesterday afternoon council staff had processed 398 of them, counting 355 opposed, 37 in support and six neutral. However, more submissions were still coming in and a final tally would not be known until early next week, council resource consents manager Alan Worthington said. The overwhelming majority of those opposed to the hotel worried about its height, shading and other effects, as well as the damage they said it would do to the city’s heritage status. However, Mr Barnett, the director of Arthur Barnett Properties Ltd, argued the hotel would breathe new life into the central city, prevent urban sprawl and encourage development in surrounding areas.
        Read more

  23. Anonymous

    I reckon the government and affiliated corporate entities are finished with using the wharf storage for holding, er, specialty goods and that slush fund has come to a very lucrative end. The land owners are now free to close up shop and get what they can in return for their support. Tim Barnett is just in this to blow up land values, make as much as possible and shuffle off to Queenstown.

    It seems like crazy money but a few million is nothing up front to a small group of people who plan to make a lot more at the end. You might recognise this as similar to the Great Farry Land Trick from the Stadium Error.

    This has been about putting a big soulless glass-box in a very public place and was clearly meant to upset as many people as possible. There’s intent behind that. The wharf was practically low key previous to this but not any more. It is no coincidence either this is all being pimped while the likes of Dave Cull and Syd Brown are still in power at Dunedin City Council. Stakeholders know that return on investment is coming to an end as well.

    Tim Barnett, Eion Edgar and Michael Hill might as well have a picture of Dunedin floating in their toilets because it is how people feel they’ve been treated over this.

    Anyone want to hazard a guess these GOBs are Masons too? Is this what they do now, sit around and think of ways to screw people to the wall?

  24. Peter

    In my submission I have asked whether any of the Greater Dunedin councillors, and the other councillors, have any conflicts of interest to do with the Director and lawyer acting for Betterways, Steve Rodgers, given they are ultimately responsible for any go-ahead for this project and its impact on Dunedin. If they have any personal friendships and/or professional and political connections, related to the run up to the previous local body elections, these need to be declared.
    We do not want a repeat of the John Farry saga where he failed to declare his stadium land interests when the Community Trust of Otago voted their contribution to the stadium. (He subsequently had to reconvene a special meeting to declare that conflict of interest. This was reported on by the Sunday Star Times with a follow-up by the ODT with the headline ‘Farry Hits Back at Critics’- a typical ODT defence for their mates.)

  25. Anonymous

    There is no surprise that the Harbourside zoning proposal has not really gone away. If you wanted to speculate on property, you might buy the old wharves and Michael Guest’s beloved asbestos-covered storage sheds down Fryatt St as they would be the next likely candidates to go. Just don’t count on being able to build a high-rise as there would be some objections…

  26. Anonymous

    There’s a memory banished to a dark place. At least one benefit of this public submission process will be the absence of Michael Guest. Most who have disagreed with his position on something will remember why that is a wonderful thing for the people raising concerns over this matter.

  27. Hype O'Thermia

    Subsidy-creep hasn’t escaped everyone – see this from the oddity’s online comments:

    As expected
    Submitted by farsighted on Sat, 06/10/2012 – 10:05am.
    This is Harbourside By Stealth.

    When the Harbourside zoning proposal was knocked back, do you think all of those developers would just go away?

    No, they just need one large project to start the ball rolling, then the remaining “privately funded” (I know, stop laughing at the back) projects can all use that resource consent as justification.

  28. DaveM

    I was thinking about Michael Guest the other day as I drove past Santa Sabina and thought what a dog’s breakfast they’d made of that site. It ended up looking far worse than the concept drawings as they completely changed the architectural style of the new units half way through and turned it into a very nasty-looking hodge podge.

    • Elizabeth

      DaveM – one thing the public is frequently unaware of or caught out by, is the ‘freedom’ attached to ‘concept’ drawings provided by applicants, for resource consenting purposes – they are more or less about INDICATIVE land use, building footprint, bulk and scale, they are not about precise detail as such, UNLESS the hearing committee has firmly set conditions that are DEFINITIVE for ‘agreed plans’ and, if you like, ‘agreed appearance’.

      How the council chooses to ENFORCE, OR NOT the conditions set then becomes the quandary. Santa Sabina is clearly, over-built – no different to what we see as we drive into Queenstown past the various quickly-constructed shacks/complexes on the dark side of the hill, capable of attracting those with big dollars who think they need a pad with lakeside views.

      Thus, the ‘Dunedin Hotel’ vision we all submitted on, is no blah set-in-concrete thing, the design is fairly fluid until it isn’t. The drawings to date are five-minute wonders any draftsperson could rip out in five minutes to the hotel ‘Holiday Inn (USA)’ formula. It really is low class for 5-star, as pointed out by Ro here, she is quite correct.

      So be suspicious of that, and concentrate on (heightened) height plane and what that could achieve for south of the Steamer Basin and elsewhere in the city, if a precedent for 27 floors is set by 41 Wharf St —which is a lot higher than what’s been agreed on appeal of the Harbourside Plan Change, resulting in the new Harbourside Zone.

      Given tower developments… It’s not the fashion right now to defraud people through a finance company (they get busted, the directors get jail and their assets get sold up on them…) – so local authority rates money for ‘FINISHING’ private sector ‘gone-wrong-unsold-floor-space-projects’ is the next trick. There are wonderful essays about waterside developments in Sydney that will turn your toes up… We do need to be aware (SFO): https://dunedinstadium.wordpress.com/2012/09/30/wake-up-call-for-christchurch-eqnz-seriousfraud/

      • Elizabeth

        Bev Butler has forwarded a note about her submission (excerpts here):

        “The first 3 points on my submission are just a brief few objections to height, ugliness, blocking of views/vista and not in keeping with historic precinct.

        I think that if it is OK for Edgar to promote the project on his ‘word’ then it is equally OK to object to the proposal because of his ‘word’.

        Last 2 points from my submission:

        4. Distrust of promoters
        I especially distrust Sir Eion Edgar’s endorsement of this project. Sir Eion Edgar was one of the main promoters of the stadium, which has proved to be a financial disaster for Dunedin. Sir Eion Edgar is a trustee of the Carisbrook Stadium Trust (CST). The CST was instrumental in deceiving the city over the conditions for the construction of the stadium having been met when this was not the case. Virtually no conditions were actually met but the stadium project still went ahead despite nearly 80% opposition to the stadium.

        5. Investors beware!
        A Wellington accountant has recently informed me that many investors have been stung and some gone bankrupt from investing in some Wellington hotels through a scheme where the hotel developers sell the hotel suites to investors promising great investment returns which didn’t eventuate. I do not know whether the unnamed developers intend to try the same, as it has not been declared one way or another. We have not even been informed of the names of the developers. Potential investors should be wary of any such schemes!”

  29. Hype O'Thermia

    Flat packs always take longer than they’re supposed to. “Easily assembled by one person in 2 hours, screwdriver included in package” – don’t make me laugh.

  30. Peter

    Yes, I agree, Dave M, the Santa Sabina infill does nothing for me either. The lower apartments don’t look as bad-especially once the surrounds are revegetated – but the backdrop of the higher, two-storey apartments, above the church, look sterile. I can’t imagine the sun getting in there for long, but maybe not as bad those apartments tucked into the hill up McClaggan St. Still, there was nothing much, in that spot, before and there are clearly people who don’t mind the lack of sun. Different story for the Santa Sabina area which had a beautiful backdrop.
    (I wish the owners of those dilapidated shops in NEV, same side of North Rd next to the supermarket, would sell them and let someone else do something pleasant with them. Not to Lincoln Darling across the road who seems to be into land banking and demolition by neglect! Or does he own them too?!)

    • Elizabeth

      Peter, the shops you mention are more interesting than appearances suggest, not just for their ‘facades and window contents’ to street – they’re owned by a woman who lives a stone’s throw away at the Gardens, in a side street. Her two-storeyed house is kept reasonably immaculate, with the blinds drawn. Shades of what’s been happening in King Edward St, and Rattray St (opposite the fiasco that is the ex Dragon Cafe).

  31. Hype O'Thermia

    I don’t think those shops have anything going for them, as modern or even acceptable retail premises nowadays. They need knocking into one or at most 2 with toilets and hand-washing facilities don’t they? Unfortunately it’s too easy to claim un-let premises off tax, saves the hassle of dealing with tenants.

  32. Peter

    I agree, Hype, they don’t stand on any merit of their own. I was meaning that either they are titivated somehow or something better is put in place.
    (Not a 27-storey hotel!)

  33. DaveM

    I never trust a concept drawing but Santa Sabina seemed to lose what little plot it had halfway through, changing from chalk to cheese. In Victorian times it would have been the equivalent of doing half a project in Scottish Baronial style and half of it in Greek Revival. Each of them badly.

    • Elizabeth

      Agree. There is one party that I particularly think FAILED with Santa Sabina and it wasn’t Mr Guest’s son, lawyer for the developer.

  34. Anonymous

    Oh you mean the conflict of interest where the son’s law firm was acting for the developer who went into voluntary liquidation owing several hundred K $$ to construction firms, one of which was represented by the same firm…?

    • Elizabeth

      That tiny moment when Cr Guest asked we of the Dunedin Heritage Fund committee to back the original developer whom he said was a fine man. No-one blinked. Cr Guest, failed to explain (although we were well aware) that his lawyer son was representing the developer. At the time, Cr Guest was chairing the DHF committee, and the council’s Planning and Environment committee.

      But no, I was thinking of something else…

      • Elizabeth

        With the proposed hotel it will be fun to learn where all the conflicts of interest lie in council. Those ‘of council’ who turned up at the project launch held at the stadium, who made media statements, and who trolleyed out the notion (oops) of red carpet treatment, provide marvellous footage for study. But the conflicts began way before that, obviously. The suits of some have shiny threads in embarrassing places.

  35. Anonymous

    Fantastic. It also has so many alternative endings:
    Hanging on perilously to his Mayoralty.
    A long way to fall when the Stakeholders are finished with him.

  36. Elizabeth

    ### ODT Online Fri, 19 Oct 2012
    Hotel hearings panel named
    By Chris Morris
    A farmer, a cafe owner, a former rugby administrator and an engineering expert will decide the fate of Dunedin’s proposed waterfront hotel. The names of the Dunedin City Council hearings committee that will consider plans for the hotel have been confirmed by Cr Colin Weatherall, who will act as committee chairman. Cr Weatherall, a former Otago Rugby Football Union chairman, said he had selected Crs Andrew Noone and Kate Wilson – a farmer and cafe owner, respectively – to join him on the panel. The trio will be joined on the panel by John Lumsden, acting as an independent hearing commissioner.
    Read more

    • Elizabeth

      Submitted to ODT Online:

      Hearings committee
      Submitted by ej kerr on Fri, 19/10/2012 – 11:20am.

      The councillors involved are all commissioners. What is a commissioner? (the following is taken from the Quality Planning website)

      “A commissioner is a person appointed by a council to carry out statutory decision-making duties on the council’s behalf, or to serve as an independent adviser to the council in the making of those statutory decisions.

      Commissioners may be generally classified as:
      ● internal commissioners – who are appointed from within a council
      ● independent commissioners – who are not a member of the council i.e. appointed from outside the elected members or staff of a council.

      Section 100A of the RMA makes a distinction between elected members and non-elected members, setting out that elected members of the council can not be independent commissioners.

      Section 100A(4) requires councils to delegate its functions, duties and powers to hear and decide on an application to one or more hearing commissioners who are not members of the council when requested by an applicant, submitter or both. The intent is that this would be an exclusive delegation to independent commissioners only (ie, not a mixed panel also containing elected members or staff of council).

      Internal commissioners may either be appointed to act alone, or with other commissioners or elected members of the council (councillors and community board members).

      A council can appoint anyone to be an independent commissioner, but typically those appointed will have relevant skills and experience for the issue being decided (such as in planning, law, surveying, engineering or science). They may also be former councillors who are appointed for their chairing or hearing experience and expertise.”
      Read more at http://www.qualityplanning.org.nz/plan-development/commissioners.php

      As published:

  37. Simon

    How can a person be an “Independent Commissioner” when they are appointed by the council?

    • Elizabeth

      Twisty word, independent.
      Simon, New Zealand lacks a body that appoints commissioners from a nationally available pool, although it’s been discussed in the context of RMA reforms. We’ve got the opportunity to raise issues with the appointments to this panel, if desired. There’s also the lack of transparency around the possibility and scope of DCC’s financial arrangements and service provisions (red carpet) that may accompany the developer’s investment. So at hearing outset or before I would expect some legal jousts on ‘how independent is the panel, really’, perceptions of conflicts of interest, etc. Tui.

  38. Anonymous

    Weird angle from Chris on the glass tower story:

    Cr Colin Weatherall, a “former Otago Rugby Football Union chairman”
    Cr Andrew Noone, a “farmer”
    Cr Kate Wilson, a “cafe owner”
    John Lumsden, an “independent hearing commissioner”

    Crs Weatherall and Noone are Stadium Councillors therefore well and truly compromised. They stopped working in the best interests of Dunedin long ago when they worked in the interests of Stakeholders.

    Both Crs Noone and Wilson are voted in by wards outside of Dunedin which means the voters of Dunedin can’t touch them at the next election. Waikouaiti and Taieri wards are not significantly impacted by this hotel development so it’s a relatively safe position for them.

    This is an old favourite of another Stadium Councillor, Syd Brown who has looked after affairs in Noone’s backyard and vice versa, particularly on contentious matters that could impact the other’s re-election.

    So it looks like Weatherall is going to take the heat this time. I’m guessing he’s not planning on running again but that would be a lot to hope for on top of a rational outcome about the height and appearance of this.

    • Elizabeth

      There’s no such thing as an ideal panel.

      The other points might be:
      1. Andrew Noone chairs the DCC Infrastructure Services Committee.
      2. Kate Wilson chairs the DCC Planning and Environment Committee.
      3. John Lumsden was on the panel of ‘independent commissioners’ who consigned the stadium zone (therefore the stadium) to the ratepayers and residents of Dunedin. He’s competent.

      None of the commissioners have formal education in urban design, architecture or heritage planning. That’s why it’s important to listen to the first part of the RNZ Sunday item on Auckland Heritage – Wayne Brittenden (see comment) – particularly in regards to the way the RMA has been twisted in its application to favour ‘growth’ (narrowly defined, to the advantage of developers, not the long-term ratepayers who respect cultural heritage values and sympathetic development).

      • Elizabeth

        If the hotel proposal is consented, we can expect to see Crs Noone and Wilson conveniently step away from the table when votes (are carefully arranged as a majority) to bring council monies (rates funds) and infrastructure services to the ‘private project’. All, without Annual Plan consultation or public mandate by other means.

        Since, as damensoc says at ODT Online…
        “You only have to look at the consent documents to realise what costs we will be asked to pay, for the privilege of a project that has never released a cost benefit analysis.”

        • Elizabeth

          The cowboy formula. The $100m tower what goes bust….
          Plus, councils now liable if the towers leak.

          ### nzherald.co.nz 5:01 AM Friday Sep 13, 2002
          Backers wanted $100m for Orewa tower
          By Anne Gibson
          Orewa developer Rick Martin wants $15 million from the public so he can buy land at Orewa for a $100 million 37-level apartment tower that does not have planning permission. His aim is to transform the Hibiscus Coast into the Gold Coast. Martin, of Cornerstone Group, is about to begin building his $65 million 12-level Nautilus apartment block, a widely promoted Orewa project with 150 units. He has pre-sold about 100 Nautilus apartments through a high-profile advertising campaign, allowing him to begin clearing the site ready for building to start this month. Now he wants to do the same 300m away, but on a grander scale. Yesterday, Martin announced that he was planning another Gold Coast-style tower, to be called Everest at Hillary Square, in Orewa’s town centre. He is asking the public for minimum deposits of $5000 by March, promising to pay 11.7 per cent annually before tax. He will keep the money for three years, perhaps four, depending on how the project goes. After a visit to Surfers Paradise, Martin decided building tall towers was better for neighbourhoods than building sprawling units. So he wants to break Orewa’s 10-level height restrictions and hopes to apply for resource consent next year.
          Read more


          ### ODT Online Sat, 30 May 2009
          Orewa tower is a leaky building
          A major visual landmark north of Auckland has been added to the list of victims of leaky-home syndrome. The repair bill for the Nautilus tower block, which dominates the seaside town of Orewa, could make it the country’s most expensive leaky building, the New Zealand Herald reported today. It quoted a source as saying the cost of fixing the problems could be as high as $19 million. The $65 million Nautilus building, which is 12 levels high and has 152 units, attracted plenty of opposition from residents when planning permission was sought. -NZPA
          Read more


          ### nzherald.co.nz 1:30 PM Thursday Oct 11, 2012
          North Shore leaky home battle to continue
          By Hana Garrett-Walker
          The Supreme Court has overturned a Court of Appeal decision and ruled that the owners of several leaky apartments in a luxury hotel complex on Auckland’s North Shore are allowed to continue their battle to sue the old North Shore City Council. In a decision released this morning the Supreme Court ruled that the owners’ appeal was allowed and it could be taken back to the High Court. But it did not make any findings as to whether any of the defendants – including the former council – were negligent.
          At the High Court the building’s owners and the body corporate argued that the council and builders had been negligent and were liable for the cost of repairs to the 23-storey Spencer on Byron Hotel in Takapuna. The building’s owners and the body corporate won. But the council appealed that decision to the Court of Appeal saying councils owed only a duty of care in respect of residential buildings, not mixed residential-commercial buildings.
          The Court of Appeal ruled that the owners of three apartments in the building could not sue the council for negligence. But the owners then appealed that ruling to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court had to decide whether the council owed a duty of care when approving plans and inspecting construction of a building which was not purely a residential building. Repairs could cost $20 million. The Supreme Court’s decision, out today, said recognising a duty of care in respect of commercial or mixed use buildings was consistent with previous rulings in New Zealand.
          Supreme Court judges, Justice Sian Elias, Justice Andrew Tipping, Justice John McGrath and Justice Robert Chambers, ruled the relationship between the owners and the council was close enough to give rise to duty of care. They ruled there was no principled basis for distinguishing between the liability of those who played a role in the construction of residential buildings and the construction of non-residential buildings. The Auckland Council took over the North Shore City Council in 2010 as part of the super city amalgamation. -APNZ
          NZH Link


          ### stuff.co.nz Last updated 17:54 11/10/2012
          Landmark leaky building case won
          By Catherine Harris
          In what is being hailed a landmark case, a leaky Takapuna hotel and residence has won its case against its local council. The Supreme Court released a decision today saying the former North Shore City Council owed a “duty of care” to ensure the Spencer on Byron development complied with the building code. The 249-residential unit complex, 200 of which are leased to a hotel, was certified by the council but later found to have defective cladding. Lawyer Paul Grimshaw, who acted for the Spencer on Byron body corporate, said the decision was historic for non-residential building owners. “To date, in a line of cases dating back to the 1970s, the courts have only imposed duties of care on councils in respect of residential premises.” Lower courts had rejected previous claims by non-residential property owners. He now believed “tens of thousands” of leaky buildings had a case. “Now the owners of offices, factories, churches, hospitals, motels, hotels, schools and all other buildings may sue councils in respect of their negligent inspection and certification of buildings in order to recover damages for necessary remedial work.” Grimshaw thought developers, architects, project managers, builders and contractors were now also potentially liable. The building’s body corporate chairman, Wayne Powell, said he was delighted by the rulings.

          “It seemed illogical to us that the council could have a responsibility for residential buildings that leaked and not for something like the Spencer, which is a mixture of residential and commercial.”

          The Auckland City Council, which assumed responsibility for the North Shore City Council liabilities after the super-city merger, said it was good to have some further clarification. “Until this decision, there has been some doubt as to whether or not the owner of a commercial building was entitled to sue a council for damages reflecting the cost of bringing the building up to standard.” The council had made provisions for potential future liabilities for leaky residences, but not for commercial properties, council media manager Glyn Walters said.
          Read more

          Comment copied from another thread:


          Another [leaky][brut] blot on my old North Shore stomping ground…

          Photos of The Spencer on Byron Hotel, Takapuna
          The Spencer on Byron Hotel – Images: TripAdvisor

          See also comment from Anonymous:
          “When the Stadium Councillors push through the Big Ugly Glassbox for the Stakeholders, council and therefore the Dunedin City ratepayer better hope none of the inspectors get grease on their hands as an incentive to overlook any ‘minor’ construction workarounds.”

  39. Anonymous

    This is the same developer that built the tower in Takapuna, based on sales of apartments that never took off and then went bankrupt.

    The lessons for Dunedin for the waterfront hotel are quite clear. Don’t touch it with a bargepole.

  40. Elizabeth

    The BS continues.

    ### ch9.co.nz November 27, 2012 – 5:56pm
    Luxury accommodation will attract visitors
    The company fronting the 28 storey hotel project in Dunedin has brought out the big guns from China, days out from a consent hearing to decide the hotel’s fate. Yi Min Sun is a municipal official from a city of more than 32 million people. And he told media this afternoon the hotel would bring Chinese tourists to Dunedin.


    ### ch9.co.nz November 26, 2012 – 5:49pm
    Top Chinese businessman and tourism leader coming to the city
    The company behind Dunedin’s 28 storey hotel is bringing what it is calling a top Chinese businessman and tourism leader to the city. Betterways Ltd says Yi Min Sun will discuss building business relationships between China and New Zealand, and the opportunities for substantial growth in visitor numbers to Dunedin. Yi Min Sun is the Deputy Director of Municipal Administration.. and Chair of Chong Qing City Travel Media.
    9 Local News will have more on the visit tomorrow.
    Ch9 Link

  41. Hype O'Thermia

    Does a hotel “bring” people to a town? I thought people would decide they’d like to, or need to, go someplace for a meeting, research, some particular interest e.g. royal albatross, steam trains. Then they’d find out where they could stay, priorities being price, proximity to their main interest, or poshness. Other people who travel frequently for reasons other than visiting family, please respond because I’m genuinely puzzled about the validity of the claim.

  42. Mike

    So he’s a professional travel PR flack – what’s missing from the article is who’s paying him, and as a result who he is being paid to sell to – chances are it’s us

    (despite what the ODT says his day job is working for his local tourism bureau to persuade us to visit his city – the fact that he’s here trying to do the opposite implies he’s here representing a third party trying to sell us something)

    • Elizabeth

      Why on earth would anyone want a slab hotel over the railway tracks, at a deserted port ? All the way from China to see the stadium, yep the logic is compelling.

      ### ODT Online Wed, 28 Nov 2012
      Hotel predicted to drive Chinese tourism boom
      By John Lewis
      A top Chinese businessman and tourism leader has signalled a flood of economic growth worth up to $64 million for Dunedin as a result of a predicted boom in Chinese tourism to the city. Chong Qing City Municipal Administration deputy/vice-director and Chong Qing City Travel Media Ltd chairman Yi Min Sun is in Dunedin for two days to discuss building business relationships between China and New Zealand, and the opportunities for substantial growth in visitor numbers to Dunedin.
      Read more

      • Elizabeth

        ### DScene 28 Nov 2012
        Hundreds may speak at hearing (page 5)
        27-storey views aired
        By Wilma McCorkindale
        Almost 400 people could potentially turn up wanting to speak at Dunedin’s 27-storey hotel hearings next week. Dunedin City Council governance support officer Lynne Robins said that of 507 submissions to the proposal, 135 were down to speak. However, another 222 submitters had not declared whether they wanted to speak to their submissions or not, Robins said. “They may turn up, they may not,” she said. Council consents manager Alan Worthington said the hearings had been set down for seven days, starting with four days from Monday, December 3 and another three from December 17. Commissioner John Lumsden would lead the hearings panel, with members Crs Colin Weatherall, Andrew Noone, and Kate Wilson. A Dunedin City Council report released last week recommended consent for the hotel not be granted. Its author, planner Lianne Darby, said the proposed hotel would be too tall, too inaccessible, not in keeping with its industrial surroundings, and would probably have a negative visual and environmental impact. The report said any actual or potential adverse effects on the environment from the hotel would be more than minor. Submitters against the project disliked the height of the building – which if constructed would be the highest in Dunedin by some margin. They also said it was in the wrong place, not in sympathy with its surroundings, and the design did not reflect Dunedin’s heritage character. Supporters felt the development would benefit Dunedin’s tourism industry and economy, and its position would help revive a neglected part of the city. #bookmark

  43. Anonymous

    From the article, up to $64 million tourism boost at $10K per pop = 6400 visits per “family” = 20,000 visitors. That’s 60 flights and 100 nights of full occupancy.

    If they come here direct, that’s 1 new flight per week (from where? new from ChongQing? Guangzhou?). But then they can’t all stay in the new hotel since it doesn’t have enough rooms.

    If they don’t come here direct, then the $10K is a much smaller figure. As we’ve seen from other similar figures, that always includes the cost of flights (arranged through Chinese travel agent) and accommodation (private Chinese-owned hotel).

    Like John Key says, learn Mandarin (and then you could get a minimum wage job as a hotel receptionist).

  44. Hype O'Thermia

    It’s that cargo-cult sales pitch, build it and they will come, all over again isn’t it!
    The stadium was going to bring people to Dunedin. NO! Something interesting to see IN a stadium, or a theatre, or the Orokonui Sanctuary…… people travel for those. Travel to see an empty stadium? NO!
    Book into a 5-star hotel because, because… um, because there’s a 5-star hotel to book into, and it happens to be in Dunedin?
    Cargo-cultists, the shysters are good at pressing their buttons.
    “What do we want?”
    “When do we want it?”
    “What should we do?”
    “BUILD IT!”
    “How will gods bless us?”
    “Blessings upon you, O faithful ones. Leave your donations in the Blessed Wheelbarrow of Growth on your way out.”

  45. Hype O'Thermia

    What “neglected part of the city”? The only “neglect” down there is caused by ships being bigger nowadays, and that’s down to the hotel fans’ favourite word Progress as in “You’ve got to have – ”
    There’s plenty going on down there. OK, it’s not bars, cafes and frock shops so some people may never have noticed.

  46. Anonymous

    Underneath that Oddity pump Hotel predicted to drive Chinese tourism boom is an ad for Spin City Cycles. Seems fitting.

  47. Anonymous

    Chinese rich man Wu Ruibiao presented gold, exotic cars, properties, shares and millions in cash to the man who married his daughter. An interpretation on this would suggest Ping Cao received a “holiday home” in Dunedin when he married Jing Song. Being rich may have its special entitlements but it is moments like those that make me appreciate my life, preferring to value a person for who they are instead of what they have. A parent should never place a realisable value on their child and true love shouldn’t come with material rewards.

    Not sure where I was going with that but it just seems the ultra wealthy lose sight of the things that really matter when they’re busy pissing in Farry’s Bucket.

  48. Hype O'Thermia

    She must be one majorly ugly psychochick bad-ass daughter, why else does it cost so much to re-home her?
    How come girls aren’t spitting tacks when their Dads offer such big bribes?
    What do they think about boys who won’t marry them unless hugely bribed?
    Culture eh, such different ways of looking at life :)

  49. Anonymous

    Note in the ODT story today with Jing Song there is absolutely no reference to the immense wealth of both her and her husband’s families. Not that wealth is a detriment to character as in the case of others from Queenstown/Wanaka, just that the minimal costs of representing the height of the hotel or meeting the few other requirements would barely register on their financials. There is a disconnect now between her public profile and that of The Lawyer who has represented those interests.

    Of course the story was written by Dene Mackenzie which explains a lot.


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