Stadium deathwatch

### ODT Online Sun, 5 Aug 2012
The Stadium challenge: make it pay
By Chris Morris
There will be no birthday bash when Forsyth Barr Stadium in Dunedin turns one year old tomorrow.
Read more

This story featured in the ODT print edition on Saturday 4 August.

The first year (via ODT)
The good
• 375,000 people through gates (250,000 were expected).
• 269 events, including 150 conferences, concerts, trade shows, meetings and social events and 119 sporting or community events.
• Rugby World Cup matches, Elton John concert, Highlanders crowds among highlights.
• $14.9 million economic boost for Dunedin estimated from Elton John concert alone.

The bad
• $1.9 million loss booked by Dunedin Venues Management Ltd in first half 2011-12 year.
• $3.3 million losses forecast to 2015 until cost-cutting and extra council funding reduced loss to $873,000.
• PricewaterhouseCoopers confirms $8.4 million construction overspend, interest costs push final stadium bill to $224.4 million.
• No major follow-up act to rival Elton John concert; talks continuing.

The ugly ???

Raging *stadium* success was never PLANNED for Dunedin.
Not with Malcolm Farry leading the charge to build and operate the thing with his Carisbrook Stadium Charitable Trust (CST) – a private trust with its books kept well hidden from public scrutiny but which received public funds from Dunedin City Council. CST was also responsible for purchase of properties for the stadium site, at highly inflated prices (check names of trustees and those handling property negotiations).
Not with DCC shell companies (joke) – Dunedin Venues Management Ltd (DVML) and Dunedin Venues Ltd (DVL) that have identical boards and have been set up to get LARGE debt conveniently off the council books. The debt still remains and is the council’s debt, nevertheless.
Not with Dunedin City Holdings Ltd (DCHL) – a cot case where the stadium is concerned, made worse with DVML and DVL moved under its wing.

Partial list only…

– (in the first year) Professional sporting fixtures were in the minority at the stadium and 69% of all events staged were considered ‘community-based’.

– Otago Rugby Football Union (ORFU), a loss-making enterprise loosely considered to be an ‘anchor tenant’ – never far from liquidation, historically the recipient of council largesse – is propped up by DVML (read DCC and Dunedin ratepayers). ORFU is currently embroiled in a fraud investigation by Department of Internal Affairs (DIA) in regards to pokie rorts worth millions of dollars. Meanwhile, ORFU owes DCC $480,000 via the bailout package – this includes a dept of $25,000+ for an ORFU black-tie dinner held at the stadium last year.

– Stadium naming rights sponsor did not front load its financial support.

– Private sector funding promised by CST did not eventuate – confirmed by forensic auditors PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC).

– (rugby and stadium related) Council-owned company Delta Utility Services Ltd (check names of directors, any change yet?) tied up with property purchases at Jacks Point near Queenstown and at Luggate.

– (stadium related) Information about council Bonds offered to ‘habitual investors’ not yet in public domain.

– DCC and DCHL borrow to pay interest on excessive borrowings, exacerbated by the stadium project.

– Costs to re-designate (and settle with affected property owners) the State Highway 88 realignment around the stadium will be excessive. High Court action continues.

– Several users of the venue are paying no venue hire fees at all.

– Search for a high-calibre replacement DVML chief executive continues.

– Results of DVML and stadium review expected by November.

How not to run a business
Comment at ODT Online by russandbev on Sun, 05/08/2012 – 1:12pm.
I note that the cost per adult to attend the ITM cup matches at the stadium is $16 per game. I also note that the board of the ORFU don’t know the cost of hirage of the stadium, nor currently have any cost projections. And yet the ticket costs have been set. A quick question then, how can the business set its ticket prices when it doesn’t have a clue about its costs?

Posted by Elizabeth Kerr


Filed under Architecture, Business, Concerts, Construction, CST, DCC, DCHL, Design, DVL, DVML, Economics, Events, Geography, Media, Name, ORC, ORFU, People, Politics, Project management, Property, Site, Sport, Stadiums, Town planning, Urban design

108 responses to “Stadium deathwatch

  1. Anonymous

    Thank you Elizabeth. The rugby stadium is a rort on a massive scale, which has lined the pockets of a select through the purchase of land, construction contracts and high yield bonds to unknown, and by definition, already very wealthy entities. This was the real intention. To scam the public purse of millions. The intended consequences were for those wealthy – some of them on the Rich List – to then have the public build them an entertainment centre and continue to pay for it by generations of rent and ratepayers.

    They consider us colateral damage only and are already working on their next big money scam. Just look at ORFU to see how busy they can get at taking other peoples’ money.

    Political pressure can have a difference. Make Mayor Dave Cull feel it. And while you’re telling him to pull his pants up, pull his head in and start acting like Mayor, add a reminder to get rid of stadium councillor Syd Brown.

  2. Anonymous

    Oh, the penny just dropped. They referred to ORFU as an “anchor tenant”. As in…sinks like an anchor…drags on the finances, like an anchor…

  3. Peter

    This desperate struggle of finding ways to make the stadium work seems set to continue for some time yet. The search for a new CEO who can work miracles is one solution that begs the question of just how such a person can do a Lazarus on the stadium. Wasn’t the head-hunted David Davies going to be ‘the man’? We know why he failed…. and it wasn’t all his fault, to be fair. Alas, he is not like the Good Witch, Samantha, on our TV screens of yore, who just had to wiggle her nose for dreams/solutions to come true.
    The fact that they can’t get people there, without freebies or reduced hire rates, tells us that they have no money tree to get the thing off the ground. A simple thing like staging meetings and conferences, in an environment where the alternative options around town are endless, tell us the stadium is a mangy dog scrounging for any scraps it can get.
    The equation is simple. No/little revenue = increasing, unsustainable debt. It all adds up to a pretty fucked stadium. R.I.P. (If only we could.)

  4. ormk

    Have we got a good list of candidates for council / mayoralty? It would be good to have one with clear indication of their position on a number of key local issues. Then we could get together a leaflet for the next election that promoted the candidates to take Dunedin forward and highlighted debt / stadium loss / rort / lack of judgement in many of our existing councillors.

    • Elizabeth

      We know of no lists of potential candidates for the 2013 local body elections, that’s not to say they don’t exist but they don’t seem to be public just yet. Frankly, for years there have been few candidates coming forward for nomination that have been worth voting for. Added to this the voter turnout has been less than miraculous. The public has a hard time knowing what local body work and politics involves until it hits them in the face. The whole situation is as sad as hell.

  5. ormk

    I imagine it is hard to find a talented person who would be willing to leave a career to sit on local council. (Not that they don’t exist.) But we need to encourage some viable candidates to come out of the woodwork and then promote them. Perhaps people in retirement or at the end of a career which could be moved to part time? We have to plan now to effect change.

  6. Elizabeth

    One or two events at scale per year sounds like progress towards the stadium’s “multipurpose” label. Nitro Circus is a coup, it can’t be denied. However, this and other uses diaried(?) won’t nearly approach the debts being run up by DVML or DVL. To this extent the advance publicity is positive gloss (and will help Mr Davies’ parting CV) – it’s still cheaper to close the stadium doors now the horse has bolted. As ODT well knows.

    ### ODT Online Wed, 22 Aug 2012
    Nitro Circus confirmed for stadium
    By Hamish McNeilly
    Ladies and gentlemen start your engines. The big-air specialists of Nitro Circus Live are coming to Dunedin’s Forsyth Barr Stadium. Dunedin Venues Management Ltd chief executive David Davies confirmed the worldwide touring event would perform at the venue on Friday, January 25. The event features some of the world’s top freestyle motocross, BMX and skateboard daredevils, and music, lights and pyrotechnics are all part of the entertainment.
    Read more

  7. Calvin Oaten

    It would be very interesting to know who pays for the “logistics of moving tonnes of soil and reinstating any damage to the turf.” Does anyone ask the question? Does DVML have this covered by the “Nitro Circus” or is it just on the tab, to not be discussed.With all due respect the ODT should have asked that and stated the case in the article. But no, better to just gloss over and go for the glamour bit. Typical?

  8. Anonymous

    You can’t expect a paper to act like a newspaper. Seriously, it’s a peculiar thing which seems to have a bizarre amount of Queenstown trivia in it and a sizeable percentage of APNZ reprints. They barely rework the intros nowadays to give it a local angle.

    It was an interesting issue around the event at the Carisbrook. It took weeks of badgering to get any feedback on how they were going to move truckloads of dirt on to it and then remove it. Unfortunately, with the exception of the usual media press release there was limited information on actuals such as costs and logistics. The main point about Carisbrook was it could sustain damage because it was conventional soil and, ultimately, closing down. But that isn’t the case with the Chairman’s entertainment centre, Forsyth Barr Stadium. That ain’t no written-down soil now. It’s the primo stuff. A hybrid that costs lots and lots of Dunedin City Ratepayer Currency to maintain and repair.

  9. Phil

    Not sure that you would call this a coup. They are appearing in Auckland, Hamilton, Wellington and Christchurch. About the only place they aren’t going to is Kurow. Probably because Kurow is smart enough not to pay for the appearance fee and for all the staging costs.

    People need to remember that while groups like these are fronted by big names, those big names only turn up at the major venues. Places like Dunedin get the equivalent of the Midweek All Blacks, who no-one has ever heard of and who perform as such.

  10. Mike

    Not if you’re spending another million on fake grass

    • Elizabeth

      Another clownish idea from the councillor. Cost saving should start with closing the stadium AND reducing each councillor’s pay to that of the unemployment benefit. Naturally, I’m only thinking of TURNOVER.

      ### ODT Online Thu, 23 Aug 2012
      Stadium may get new turf
      By Chris Morris
      A proposal to replace the mixed grass turf inside the Forsyth Barr Stadium with a full artificial turf – at an estimated cost of $1 million – will be considered by a Dunedin City Council subcommittee examining changes to the year-old venue. However, the idea has prompted a warning from Dunedin Venues Management Ltd chief executive David Davies, who said it could make it harder to attract All Blacks tests and some other top-level sports fixtures.
      Read more

  11. Peter

    Maybe Wayne and Laurie might like to help out with the costs. If they get a million dollars from their defamation spoils, they could donate it back for the artificial turf. Then we can say nice things about them.
    (I guess it would be cost neutral, but still…. That’s how philanthropy works here in Otago.)

  12. Calvin Oaten

    Phil, what have you got against Kurow? It has the Waitaki Dam which has produced electricity for the national grid for over 75 years. Dunedin once had Waipori but now has a stadium. I think Kurow has got the better of the deal even without the “coup” of the “Nitro Circus”

  13. Peter

    Calvin. It would seem Kurow built it (the dam), but they didn’t come. Same with us with the stadium.

  14. Rob Hamlin

    Lee needs to be exceedingly careful here. Artificial turf would indeed increase the versatility of this venue, although it does rather make a mockery of the transparent roof that was put in to encourage the growth of grass that won’t be there any longer. Also, said transparent roof and its solar heat generation capacity (c. 4 megawatts on a sunny day) – a by-product of its supposed grass growing capacity – means that it can never be sealed against the other element e.g. wind.

    No, Lee needs to be careful because if an artificial surface is put in, the bonny bonny boys in blue (and green) will need a new home. Oddly enough they have one ready made because for some strange reason Carisbrook and its reportedly ideal rugby surface still appear to be in immaculate condition. Achieving this status seems to be an unnecessary expense for the Council to be incurring, given that this structure is for sale, slated for demolition – and a pro-rugby stadium has not been mentioned as an end use. Why are they doing this? I have been wondering for a while.

    Let’s just look at the implications for this artificial turf a bit more closely…

    It is unlikely/inconceivable that pro-rugby players would play on plastic grass – and for once I don’t blame them for taking that stance…
    This means no pro Rugby matches…

    This means no “”private funding”” as the seat and box contracts that have been put in fancy dress as private funding by the CST are conditional upon pro–rugby being played at the Foobar…

    DVML is now the entity left holding the $50 million liability in this regard – and this eventually means us ratepayers.

    However, there is a way out (Hooray!) and this is how it could be sorted…
    The “”private funding”” contracts could be transferred to boxes and seats at Carisbrook, as this (oh how fortuitously) still has the playing surface and infrastructure in place to support them. This will “”save”” the ratepayer $50 million or so, but in order to achieve this “”saving”” the ratepayers will have to make an “”investment”” of $49,500,000 or so before our bonny bonny boys in blue (and green) will magnanimously agree to play at this totally inadequate venue. This “”investment”” would include:

    Free and exclusive occupancy of Carisbrook for the ten year period of the “”private funding”” for the two ‘sports service delivery’ organisations.
    All other revenue streams to be paid to said organisations.
    All other event and venue maintenance and upkeep expenses to be paid by DVML (the ratepayer).
    Stands, corporate suites, changing rooms and training facilities to be upgraded to the highest international standard by DVML (the ratepayer).

    So DVML will not get to save the full $50 million, but the figures presented to council might indicate that they might save $500,000 or so over the then years – if all the assumptions of 750% attendance increases and nine super trophies and thirteen provincial championships in the next ten years that support these return on “”investment”” projections are met – and surely that would be worth it – Wouldn’t it?

    No, Carisbrook needs to be a hole in the ground, or preferably an industrial estate, before the turf comes out of the Foobar – as it inevitably will do eventually. At that point it’s ‘Go Highlanders’, and I personally won’t give a damn where at that point – Not that I give a damn now of course, but I would certainly care about being pinked another couple of hundred on my rates to rehouse them (again) in this city.

    The one thing that this city needs less than one debt funded stadium is two of them.

  15. Phil

    The latest turf issue, and the fact that no Councillor has taken up the gift wrapped opportunity to dive in to shout Lee down, suggests that there is a problem with maintaining the turf today. And an expensive one at that, clearly greater than the $1 million capital replacement cost. That’s no great surprise. Remember the so-called “test” they carried out on the turf with the transparent roof ? That was only carried out for a few weeks, on a few square metres of turf, and in the middle of summer. Despite the protests and words of caution from the hired turf consultants, no testing was carried out under the winter months. Malcolm vetoed the testing in order to meet the construction deadline of the RWC. So no-one knew what it would do. It was a totally meaningless test. It was also acknowledged at the time, and confirmed later by the late Cr Walls, that portable artificial lighting rigs would be required during the period when natural lighting levels would be insufficient to promote grass growth. These rigs were never included in the budget anywhere, but were necessary from the beginning. They are built in Norway for the cost of about $500k. They then obviously have a high operating cost which must be factored in throughout the entire winter period. Turf replacement would probably recover its capital cost relatively quickly, but it’s not really a savings when it’s just correctly a poor choice made at the start.

    I hate the phrase “plastic turf”. That’s just ill-informed by the local media. Yet again. I don’t know where they get these people from. They are still talking about the old Astroturf type stuff that the Americans used 20 years ago. No-one uses that any more. Most people would not know the difference between a natural turf and an artificial turf by looking at it or walking on it. A lot of European football teams use heated artificial turf surfaces and they have a bit more at stake than a two bit rugby team. The ball bounces exactly the same way as it would on a natural turf playing surface. We’re not talking about the type of matting one buys at the Warehouse, nor about the type of playing surface that the hockey players use. The All Blacks have played many times on artificial turf surfaces overseas, and it hasn’t bothered them then. It makes sense to change it if it means reduced operating costs, but then Malcolm should be held accountable for using poor judgement in the first place.

  16. Phil

    Hi Calvin, I’ve got nothing against Kurow. I was actually holding Kurow up as a shining example of common sense and good judgement in not getting themselves into un-necessary debt by paying for the costs of paying for a holiday for a group of American boy racers.

  17. Calvin Oaten

    Phil, point taken. My cheek was firmly filled with tongue when I wrote it.
    But on a more serious note (as if one could get serious about this) both yours and Rob’s posts seem to suggest that our new roofed stadium is actually not very good. Sheesh! You know it cost the ratepayers $170m approx., not counting the portion of stadium blackmail on our ORC rate demand. Anyway, it must be good if our ‘dopey’ councillors are considering spending another $1m for an artificial turf. But then I suppose they will do anything to keep currying favour with the good people at the ORFU. These people are so good, that not only are they not paying anything for the use of the stadium (walking away from a debt of over $480,000 to the DCC plus several hundred thousand to private creditors), but two of them are suing our mayor for making scurrilous remarks about their integrity. Rob’s idea of the rugby ‘nutters’ returning to their ‘Mecca’ Carisbrook. But the best way round that is to simply deed it back to the ORFU for a token consideration. Say $1 per year in perpetuity. That seemed to work well enough for Mayor Peter Chin when he gave ‘Trustpower’ 99 years (was to be 999 years) use of our water to use to generate power for profit. So you see, it would not be creating a precedent. Tell the ORFU they have our blessing, but from now on they are on their own. Turn off the power at the stadium, shutdown DVML and DVL, consolidate its debt as a fixed amount which can be budgeted, place a very large illuminated sign on the front saying how it came to be there, with naming (and shaming) all people involved in the decisions surrounding its coming into being, and have one of those illuminated ticker bands running continuously indicating the debt obligation as a running total. Who knows, it could be a tourist destination, not unlike a ‘House of Horrors’. Then try and hold a dutch auction and see if there is anyone out there sillier than our lot who might make an offer we couldn’t refuse. As a marketing exercise it could also be posted on ‘Trade Me’.
    If all else fails throw ourselves at the mercy of central government, who knows, they might buy it for the University. I have already made suggestions along those lines.

  18. Russell Garbutt

    Phil, your comments re Farry are worth highlighting. This is the coot that rammed this project through and he did so with his dear old mates on the CST. We were told so often that he sweated every dollar, every decision to build this white elephant and the turf is just but one of the features of this project that has become another example of the quality of the decisions. And he reckons that if he was in charge of the whole thing now it would be running at a profit. Well, how about if he and his mates buy the thing off the City for cost and he can take all the profits he can make. I’d vote for that.

  19. Phil

    It’s in a report somewhere, Russell, where Malcolm specifically noted that he had not approved the full turf testing programme as recommended by his own turf consultant, as this would have led to an unacceptable delay in the construction process leading to the venue not being ready in time for the RWC.

    I had a quick check around, and artificial turf lighting rigs are used on natural turf playing surfaces throughout England and continental Europe as part of the standard turf maintenance programme. One lighting rig costs just over $100k. Most stadia use 6 of these rigs. That’s because they have to stand over one spot for a length of time before being rolled a few metres along to the next spot. So it’s not feasible to have just one. The operating cost for each rig is put at around $35k per annum. That starts to make $1M look attractive. Additionally, and I hadn’t considered this, is the turf watering costs. An enclosed natural turf stadium, receiving no natural watering, requires 15,000 litres (which apparently is about 2mm) of water a day. Groundskeeping costs for a stadium which has changed to an artificial surface reduced from a full time position for several people, to a 5 hour per week single position. An artificial turf is expected to last for about 8 years, whereas a natural (or even hybrid) playing surface has an expected lifecycle of 2 years. Which I guess is why they are starting to talk about it now. So there’s a lot of money to be saved. But, of course, it’s not a savings if you’re doing it just to correct a mistake. You’re just reducing the amount of the loss.

  20. Elizabeth

    Mr Davies said the cost of the new system formed part of the $1.9 million loss reported by DVML for the first six months of the 2011-12 year, and did not represent new spending. He expected the system would pay for itself within four years.

    ### ODT Online Mon, 27 Aug 2012
    Screens to help get information to patrons
    By Chris Morris
    Dunedin Venues Management Ltd, which runs the stadium, unveiled a new $1.3 million Cisco StadiumVision system at the ITM Cup rugby match between Otago and Northland, on Saturday. The system includes operating software and 163 Samsung screens – of between 31 and 52 inches – inside the roofed venue, bringing the total number of screens mounted within the venue to 220. The screens and operating system were paid for last year, but installation was completed only in recent days, after the last of the new screens arrived, DVML chief executive David Davies said.
    Read more

  21. Phil

    I’ve been against these screens on a number of fronts. Not the concept of the screens as a way of providing information, that’s fine. But they are a non-necessary item. A frill that we don’t have money for. And yet somehow they just got shoved in. Firstly, this isn’t Wembley stadium. There are not 80,000 people in the stadium. There is a public address system already installed. The public address system will give an immediate result no matter where the parents are. If a child is lost, a booming voice will have a far better result than a television screen that you have to be standing in front of. The problem has already been solved. Secondly, and this is the one that annoys me, it’s going to encourage the stadium beer outlet to turn into a pub. The local drunks are going to stagger down for a refill 15 minutes after kick off, realise that they can still see the game without having to leave the outlet, and set up camp there for the duration. It’s a nice enough concept, but it’s trying to play on solving a problem which already has a solution, while creating a new problem of its own making.

  22. Anonymous

    The Otago Stadium Times continues to report the purchase of Carisbrook as six million dollars even though it is now widely known to be untrue. That’s just really disappointing.

    Carisbrook deal expected before Christmas

    By Debbie Porteous on Fri, 27 Jul 2012
    ‘The council bought Carisbrook from the Otago Rugby Football Union for $6 million in 2009.’
    ODT Link

    {Link added. See related post and comments at Carisbrook sale. -Eds}

  23. Calvin Oaten

    Anon; didn’t the purchase include the houses in Burns St (since sold) and the Neville St car park (also since sold), so the actual Carisbrook arena may well have been $6 million? I am not defending in any way the situation but if it is sold for $6 million (difficult to believe) that might be the claimed end to it. But unless someone has an idea of operating it as a stadium then it comes with a whole lot of additional adapting costs. Frankly, I doubt there is a buyer out there at much more than $3 million (the original valuation opinion) so don’t hold your breath. Of course the DCC may accept a price within that range. It has been known to do stupider things, like buying it in the first place.

    • Elizabeth

      Garrick Tremain – 27 August 2012

      (stadium, ORFU, TTCF, CST, Jokers bars, DCHL, Delta Utility Services, Jacks Point, Luggate, Harness racing, Syd Brown, what the hell… must be more $money where all that came from)

      • Elizabeth

        oh ffs

        ### August 28, 2012 – 5:54pm
        First anniversary of owning the Carisbrook Stadium approaches
        Dunedin is approaching a first – and very expensive – anniversary of owning the Carisbrook Stadium. The 12 month mark will soon tick over on a stint of ownership expected to cost around $400,000. Despite a new prospective buyer raising their hand in the last 24 hours, the council says it will take much longer than that to seal a deal.

  24. Calvin Oaten

    Interesting to note where the University notes a drop in student numbers of about 1.8% year on year. This represents around 700. Compare this with St Malcolm BDS’ claim of an additional 500 students purely because of the stadium. Further, his claim of a $20 million per annum economic benefit to the region is also looking decidedly dodgy. No doubt but St Malcolm’s ‘burnished halo’ has slipped down onto his shoulders and is looking more and more like a ‘Dunny Seat’ by the day.

  25. Russell Garbutt

    St Farry of St Clair was not the only prominent person making these extravagant and totally false claims linking student numbers at the University of Otago and a new stadium for professional rugby. Indeed, at one meeting held at one of the Burns lecture theatres at the University, St Farry told the assembled staff members that the whole project was “really a University project more than anything else”. That was not only untrue, but a view that seemed to be adopted by quite a few others.

    While it is clear that St Farry was the willing mouth for the activities of the Carisbrook Stadium Trust, one shouldn’t forget the other members of this shadowy trust that made all the decisions. Arthur William Baylis, Ronald Douglas Anderson, Stewart Arthur Barnett, Kereyn Maree Smith, Malcolm Saba Farry and John Francis Ward are all Trustees and presumably agree with all of the announcements made on their behalf.

    Some of these people also had/have other interesting connections. For example, Kereyn Smith was a Director of the Centre of Excellence for Amateur Sport which has been shown by a variety of published material to be “highly connected” to the pokie fund activities involving the ORFU and The Trusts Charitable Foundation.

  26. Peter

    I remember David Skegg, in a response to a letter of mine to the ODT on the subject of student numbers, had to admit there was no objective research/evidence that the stadium alone would attract 500-1000 students. It was merely a subjective view. Amazing given the man has a scientific background, but was nevertheless prepared to go along worth St Farry’s bullshit. Many a weak man, or woman, would have done the same – and there were plenty of them in the stadium mix.

  27. Bev Butler

    The other CST trustee is Sir Eion Edgar who became a trustee in mid- 2008 before the Forsyth Barr naming rights were ‘signed up’ in Jan 2009. It was reported in NBR that Forsyth Barr had paid a ‘significant’ sum. The first monthly payment was not paid until Sept 2011.

    • Elizabeth

      Via an earlier comment on another thread, the CST Trustees listed at their website, with glorious pictures except for John Ward:

      Be charmed.

      • Elizabeth

        Instantaneous Isolated Tweets:

        4:43 PM – 27 Aug 12
        @10PARK @DnCityCouncil Why is the pitch at #Carisbrook being maintained in such good condition, ahead of the property sale?

        11:40 AM – 29 Aug 12
        @DnCityCouncil @10PARK Re Carisbrook pitch. We maintain all the assets we manage & it’s good for the sale process to have things tidy. Cheers.

        (DCC must have a different asset list to the one I’ve got, with very different condition reporting – and no strengthening, conservation, maintenance or upgrade work needing to be done, well, anywhere)
        Tidy for demolition, nah, tidy for sale to WHO ?

  28. Russell Garbutt

    Yes Bev, no-one should forget Eion Edgar who really is one of the string-pullers. I too wondered about the situation whereby a person so deeply involved in research and working in that area nearly every day could make so many sweeping generalisations claiming outcomes without ANY corroborating evidence and in fact could dismiss or ignore quality research that showed the very opposite to what was being advanced. Strange.

  29. Anonymous

    It will be extremely interesting to see where the corporate boxes end up, post-demolition (these were built to be modular, able to be taken apart and relocated). Queenstown Events Centre or University Oval?

  30. Hype O'Thermia

    Bev notes ” Forsyth Barr had paid a ‘significant’ sum. The first monthly payment was not paid until Sept 2011.” My rates bills have come in, ORC and DCC. Compared to my income they are a significant sum. Can I claim the same definition of “had paid” if it’s a couple of years before I get round to paying, or do the threats of penalty printed on the accounts apply to me?
    Is it a case of one law for stadium supporters, another for stadium rortees? I am both, being according to the use to which these rates are put a stadium supporter.
    I look forward to an announcement in the local press that there has been an error when printing the rates accounts and the stadium portion of rates will be regarded as “has been paid” immediately if no objection to it is lodged, i.e. if the ratepayer agrees to pay… eventually.

  31. anon

    What media? Or do you mean the Deflated Scene or the Otago Rugby Times? One of the Stakeholders must have got the rates rise on his Queenstown house for it to have been so deeply challenged by the Oddity.

  32. amanda

    I hear you, anon! Since Wilma told us all that she just is not really into holding politicians to account for ineptitude, I have not been at all so keen on the DScene. When its nice and easy they may be there, but challenge the Big Boys in town? Nah. Just like the ORT, that’s in the too hard basket. So then, what use is the local media to me? If they stand by as the city is sold out from under us?

  33. amanda

    It’s the old story. If the media scrapes and bows to power, then they will stomp on those without power.

  34. Anonymous

    Very astute Amanda. You are quite right about the media falling into line behind this government’s increasingly horrid social bashing campaigns. Many people are against the wall today and being dropped in the same bucket with those few who abuse the system. The government is using those few to penalise the whole while the clueless media carries the flawed statistics. Sad are the readers who buy into that news.

    The greed-driven rich are doing far worse to society and add little or nothing of value today. They are quick to outsource hardworking employees and destroy lives when there’s a slight slippage in their millions. Or someone’s built a superyacht bigger than theirs. Or there’s another house to buy in Queenstown. Or the fat neck corporate bastard beside them has found a loophole which allows the shredding of more staff just because they can.

    They are an evil stain on society yet our shallow media of today goes for the low blow if they think it’ll boost their dying ratings.

  35. Anonymous

    Actually the pokieplay drive-by spammer does remind me about that pokies website frequently advertised on prime time telly. The interesting thing is, it requires no cash but looks and feels exactly like the real games. So you get hooked on the online version and then are pre-programmed for getting hooked on the real thing. That is some sneaky shit right there.

    I highly recommend people do not roll with that dice.

    {pokieplay was sent to Spam heaven. -Eds}

  36. Hype O'Thermia

    Should ChCh build another Stadium? Close-up TV1. 7pm tonight.

  37. Elizabeth

    The NZRU did not specify which space it wanted at Dunedin’s new stadium, “so in no way were we involved in ejecting members from the lounge”.

    ### ODT Online Sat, 8 Sep 2012
    Stadium dispute settled
    By Chris Morris
    Angry rugby fans have forced a concession from Dunedin Venues Management Ltd, after threatening to tear up membership contracts over a lounge lockout for next weekend’s All Blacks test against the Springboks. Hundreds of fans with five-year contracts for stadium hospitality lounges were told on Monday they could not use one of the two lounges promised to them. Instead, the lounge on the second level of the stadium’s south stand was to be used by the New Zealand Rugby Union. Brooker Travel Group managing director Andrew Carmody said he was part of a 120-strong group of stadium founding members facing a lockout from the lounge.

    Their contracts – each costing $1590 per season – provided seats and access to the level two lounge, and another lounge on level four, for all ITM Cup, Super 15 and test matches.

    Read more

  38. Anonymous

    NZRU wanted its promised land
    DVML leaped to its feet and said YES SIR!
    DVML tried to shaft its last, loyal supporters
    And then NZRU shafted it.

    • Elizabeth

      I can’t help but think NZRU, having seen the state of ORFU’s affairs (another headache NZRU don’t need for rugby…), is a bit grumpy with the far south. DVML and ORFU being such pals.

  39. Elizabeth

    ### ODT Online Tue, 18 Sep 2012
    Disabled, wheelchair stadium access worrying
    By Rosie Manins
    Car-park access at the Forsyth Barr Stadium is being reviewed following a communication breakdown which resulted in some disabled and wheelchair-bound ticket holders denied entry during the All Blacks test on Saturday. Among them was a wheelchair-bound All Blacks official, the Otago Daily Times was told. United Taxis drivers were not allowed in the car park to drop off or pick up their disabled and wheelchair-bound passengers, despite an assurance they would be allowed to do so.
    Read more


    A comment at ODT Online reads like an advert penned by DVML’s Guy Hedderwick or Jo Scully:

    Stadium art and craft market
    Submitted by ladybug on Tue, 18/09/2012 – 11:24am.

    In a month a new art and craft market will be opening in the stadium on Sundays. Everyone can come and look around. Everyone has the opportunity to open a stall. Currently this new opportunity to be a stall holder, to create something my community can enjoy is very exciting. I am not one of a “couple of dozen professional for-profit guys”. The money I pay each week in stall fees will go partly to charity and partly to DVML. I am an ordinary citizen and I do get to ‘use the stadium’ – for something that can benefit everyone.

    • Elizabeth

      Register to read D Scene online at

      ### D Scene 19 Sep 2012 (pages 3-4)
      Stadium looks at rugby test crowd problems
      By Mike Houlahan
      Forsyth Barr Stadium management have vowed improvements will be made after long queues and a potentially dangerous halftime crush under the Mitre 10 Mega stand spoiled the first All Blacks rugby test at the new venue for some patrons. Thousands formed a mass scrum at halftime trying to get to bars, food outlets and toilets under the Mitre 10 Mega stand. Unlike at the other end of the ground which has permanent toilets underneath, patrons must shuffle the whole length of the narrow passage. For many, getting to the toilets and back took 20 to 30 minutes. Similar-sized crowds were in the stadium for the Rugby World Cup matches last year, but on those occasions RWC volunteers directed traffic.

      Stadium chief executive David Davies said all issues with the game would be discussed at a debrief, including whether the addition of extra seating for the test had caused problems.

      “If we had further stewards would that have made it easy? I’m not sure, it’s another set of bodies. But what we will do is look at the design for similar loading again.” Davies suspected a combination of factors led to Saturday’s problems. “We have had full Zoo attendances [the designated Scarfie zone] at other matches but didn’t have the same issues,” Davies said. “I think there were a couple of influences on Saturday that had we had the benefit of experience we would have done differently. Unfortunately, all over the stadium there were jams on the concourses resulting from people remaining in their seats to watch the presentation of the Olympians which we fully understood and supported. What that did was condense halftime down from 15 minutes to about eight, because people remained to pay their respects. Then people who wanted a drink and a comfort break all left at the same time rather than it being spread out.”

      Davies said the stadium had come a long way since the Elton John concert and the Rugby World Cup, and was being better managed.

      “We have taken on board constructive criticism we have received. We won’t be resting on our laurels, but Saturday was relatively quiet. Police were telling us they had 11 incidents with the public and the vast majority of the crowd were well behaved.” #bookmark #bookmark


      D Scene Editorial: Act now to avoid stadium injuries (page 6)
      By Mike Houlahan
      Forsyth Barr Stadium management got lucky on Saturday night after people were left bruised by a human logjam under the Mitre 10 Mega Stand at halftime in Saturday’s All Blacks v South Africa rugby test.[…]If there had been a crush, medical staff would have had severe problems getting to injured people. It also raises the question of how easily patrons could have evacuated the stand in a genuine emergency.
      {continues} #bookmark


      Letters (page 6):
      Bev Butler, City Rise
      Stadium debate – I would appreciate an opportunity to respond to Malcolm Farry’s claims in D Scene’s “Stadium opponent at odds with Farry” (September 12).{continues} #bookmark

  40. Anonymous

    The ForBarr stadium design is a catastrophe waiting to happen. The exits from the stands cause an immediate crush at the food outlets as people queueing cross those heading for the toilets. This happens in all of the stands. Ironically, the East stand (which has toilets but lacks food outlets) is the best.

    This isn’t noticeable in normal use as the stadium is never full and does not have a boisterous or violent crowd. The design can cope with up to 15K crowds, but more than that is dubious. In an emergency, the best way to avoid the crush would be to get onto the pitch and wait for the groundsman to throw you out.

    I posted concerns during construction several times, in particular, the fall hazard from the North Stand where at the ends, there is an unprotected fall of 15m.

    • Elizabeth

      ### ODT Online Wed, 19 Sep 2012
      Football: All Whites unlikely to play in Dunedin
      By Steve Hepburn
      The chances of the All Whites playing at Forsyth Barr Stadium look slim, with the head of New Zealand football saying it is a “long shot” the national side would venture south. New Zealand Football chief executive Grant McKavanagh said although no decision had been made on where the All Whites would play their World Cup qualifier in March it was unlikely to be at Forsyth Barr Stadium. The decision has disappointed stadium chiefs, who are less than impressed with the communication they have received from New Zealand Football.

      “We have to know when we are bringing a game to a town that we are coming into the right environment. There was nothing of that in what we received from the DMVL proposal.” -McKavanagh

      Read more

  41. Peter

    Farry, in his response to Bev’s letter, basically argues, like he usually does, that everyone else is wrong and he is right. For Farry, this is his belief that he has always been right,continues to be, and will be forever after. Amen.
    There was a little bit missing in the letter, at the start, that made the point that the information was sourced through Official Information requests.

    On the other matter raised by D Scene, on the crush problem at the stadium, we note they are doing their civic duty by reporting this, as did National Radio.

  42. Russell Garbutt

    It is interesting to note that on the front page of the ODT this morning the very large headline deals with the theft of a quarter of a million by an employee of the University. Indeed a serious business. But how about the many many missing millions of Dunedin City ratepayer funds that have been either misappropriated, diverted, thrown down the toilet, or ended up in individuals’ already deep pockets?

    It might be a fact as you get older and more experienced, you start to really notice these things, but right at this moment we have a so-called Sir Ngatata Love (actually his name is Ralph Herberly Love) and his girlfiriend Lorraine Skiffington putting in consultancy fee estimates of $35m in their attempt to sell the Wellington raliway station for a casino, John Banks continuing to lie about his underhand secretive deals with Kim Dotcom, Donkey Jonkey acting like the deaf, dumb and blind monkeys all in one, stupid and nonsensical claims about owning water, sale of assets, and then the whole series of scandals associated with the ORFU, the DCC, the Centre of Excellence for Amateur Sport, Delta, DCHL, the ORC etc etc etc. This country and this town are no longer places where old-fashioned things like honesty and transparency are valued. Crooks, theives and vagabonds are the new elite.

  43. Peter

    Funny how the ODT puts the ‘might have’ events for the stadium on/near the front page and when they don’t have them, as is the case with the All Whites not playing in Fubar, after all, they shove the ‘negative’ news back to the Sports Pages.
    I think their slip is showing, don’t you? I understand a very large number of ODT staff are sick of, and embarrassed, by the present stadium ramp up by management.

  44. Hype O'Thermia

    Remember the old days when we in the enlightened organised democracies used to laugh (insensitive types) or despair (bleeding hearts) about the kind of thing Russell Garbutt (post September 19, 2012 at 8:45 am, above) describes. “Emerging nations” – they were having “teething troubles”. What’s the DCC’s excuse, broke its dentures?

  45. Calvin Oaten

    When, oh when, are we going to see some professional journalistic input to the important matters happening in our city of Dunedin? In today’s ‘DScene’ there was a letter from Bev Butler, detailing points of relevance regarding the financial shenanigans she recently exposed in a press release published. That release by the ODT, was overwhelmed by pathetic publishing with the main emphasis being the remarks of Mayor Cull and CST chairman Malcolm Farry. Ignoring the message but shooting instead the messenger.

    Anyone with a modicum of intelligence who read the article would have seen at a glance the real story. It screams out for more research and exposing of the almost criminal activities, and naming and shaming. Now we see Ms Butler’s attempt to put the record straight being simply published in a truncated manner, ignoring the official sources from which she dredged this information and elaborating further for the benefit of the public at large, just what awful things are going on in our city. It does, however, give Malcolm Farry full range to dispute and rubbish the assertions, but does not ask him the hard questions. Once again, Malcolm (speaking through his ‘brown eye’, as his head is so deeply buried in the sand) gets away scot free.

    The standard of investigative journalism in this city is appalling and the citizens are seriously shortchanged because of it. I guess the rumours of redundancies at the ODT might well have relevance, due to falling readership and consequent advertising support. That’s what comes of not fulfilling the needs of the customer. The first tenet of good journalism is, I would have thought, to inform the reader with a full unbiased disclosure of the subject, outlining both the pros and the cons. Most particularly to do with issues on the home front. This is what a community paper is designed for. Miss that point and she’s all over.

  46. Calvin Oaten

    On the same theme, arguably the most egregious, unreported, un-investigated happening going on right under our noses is the matter of the two people from the ORFU suing our Mayor for $500,000 apiece for defamation. This has been taken control of by the insurance people, who dictate to our Mayor that he should negotiate this behind closed doors. Our wimpish Mayor, simply buckles under this – which is a tacit admission of fault – and agrees. This is a case where he should stand up and declare it must go before the courts and the law will decide. It means going it alone and the city pick up the tab for whatever the outcome. At least the truth would come out – if the defense counsel was worth his/her salt – and the people would know the truth of the matter.

    So where is the investigation, the reporting, the demanding of the truth? Not a whisper! The media again falling abysmally short in its duties to the citizens. The Mayor shrugs it off, the ORFU live to rort the city another day, and life goes on. As usual. What a “pathetic” little city we live in. All it can do is bend and twist at the whim of any ‘rascal’ who chooses to have a go. All we get fed is the games they play, like making this the best little city in the world, and creating 1000’s of new jobs in the next ten years with an increase in income of $10,000 pa. Pipe dreams, ah la Harland days. Anyone for a newspaper?

  47. Anonymous

    Observation: In virtually every game, with the exception of the sold-out test, the open club reserves in the South stand have been practically deserted. These formed a component of the “private funding” (I know, stop laughing) of the original sales and were about $10K per annum for 5 or 10 years.

    Question: Where are all the people who would be entitled to sit in these reserves? Why don’t they turn up to the games?

  48. Russell Garbutt

    One only needs to look at the attendance figures published in the Sunday Star Times today to see the parlous state of professional rugby and its ongoing belief that it is somehow owed a living. The attendance figures at Otago matches are hovering round the 4000 mark and Sky TV discloses that its ratings for rugby are dropping. So not only do people not attend, they can’t be bothered watching it at home, or down at the local pub.

    And this is the sector of the entertainment area that pillocks like Brown, Noone, Collins, Bezett, Acklin, Hudson and Weatherall believed would resurrect Dunedin by building a stadium. Not to hold 30,000, but just over 17,000. I wonder how many of those twerps regularly attend Otago rugby matches and who hosts them in their hospitality suites? St Farry of St Clair? Probably too busy up Qtown way. Probably our totally unfindable Grady Cameron at Delta? If he could not be seen by his redundant workers down in the poor seats. Maybe the good mates at one or two legal or accounting firms that know how to keep public info firmly in the private area? Only if they can get there quietly I suppose.

    But hey, its OK. Right? Richie McCaw is going to take a sabbatical by probably going overseas, counting his money for a while, and then come back to NZ-wide acclamation. That’s the real news isn’t it? That’s an intriguing term to use for a rugby player – sabbatical. Comes from the religious belief that it is wise to rest the ground every 7 years. Normal people take holidays, but rugby players can take a year off by the sound of things and I don’t think it affects their income as long as you call it something poncy.

    {Links added. -Eds}

  49. Anonymous

    Yes, front and centre news on Oddity. But we all know the paper has a soft spot for rugby. It considers such breaking news is an ORFU bloke imitating Gangnan Style. Refer to its Odd TV for that bit of sad crap, replete with laugh out loud rugby slogan. I assume my rates will have paid for it or will when our Mayor gives them more millions.

    New season. Same shit.

  50. Mike

    Yes – I’ve noticed this too – I wasn’t going to call them until they had one more game with 5000 or less – the stadium was going to be the thing that solved the ORFU’s attendance problem at Carisbrook – and as a result their money problems – instead we see ITM cup games where we see 5000 people attending – which means an average of ~$20 a seat going to the ORFU – 5000 attending – a gate of $100k – we know that it costs about that much just to open the stadium – it means that any money that the ORFU gets is a gift from the ratepayer.

    Remember that DVML is now doing all their marketing for free too – and with 4-5,000 numbers they’re obviously doing a piss poor job of it.

  51. Anonymous

    The followers of Rugby Religion are happy with their untruths. Clubs fudge their crowd numbers, lie to the media and mislead the NZRU. But then the media and NZRU are comfortable with any on-going clerical misunderstandings. And hey, why let the facts get in the way of a good story? No surprises there in this town. Only surprise is the reporter was allowed to investigate and report on this matter. In Dunedin he or she would likely be slated for “change management”.

    People just don’t care about professional rugby today. Only stakeholders benefit from it and they don’t care about people.

  52. Peter

    This kind of leaves the ‘make the stadium work’ argument even barer. Never mind. We have the best person out of 100 for the DVML job. Darren.

    Yes, Russell, the ‘sabbatical’ terminology is pretty funny. Gives an academic flavour to rugby. An oxymoron, surely.

    • Elizabeth

      I laughed at the SST photo overlay/caption, “SO WHERE THE BLOODY HELL ARE YOU? (page B16 today), as the wail went up over falling rugby match attendance numbers. Hilarious.

      It also reminded me of Stephen Cairns’ disappearance noted by Peter elsewhere at What if? – the man who used that line while chairing ORC….

  53. Peter

    The rugby administration buffoons just don’t seem to get it. There is too much rugby. The rugby followers are bored. I seem to remember an All Black – forget who – said as much the other day. Even Richie McCaw wants a break.

  54. Phil

    For an ITM cup match, the venue only receives between 10 and 15% of the gate taking. They would have to sell tickets in excess of $100 per seat to even come close to covering the direct costs for that one day. That doesn’t include for the indirect costs such as salaried staff etc which also have to be covered by the same percentage of gate takings. The more rugby matches in the stadium, the greater the losses.

  55. Phil

    New Zealand doesn’t have the population base to support this kind of helter skelter competition. The NZRU are trying to use the English Premier football league as a model, forgetting that the UK has a population of 60 million. English stadia will always find 30,000 to fill them up every week.

    Having rugby practically every night of the week means that more people are now used to sitting at home and watching on television. We’re creatures of habit. So there’s now less motivation to change that weekly habit on a Saturday. I suspect that the NZRU isn’t privately as worried as they are portraying. With the majority of their income coming from television broadcasting rights, they probably couldn’t give a toss if no-one turns up to the grounds. They carry zero risk when it comes to the stadia.

  56. Anonymous

    The Stadium Councillors are united in support for oil:

    > Bill Acklin
    > Syd Brown
    > John Bezett
    > Neil Collins
    > Paul Hudson
    > Andrew Noone
    > Colin Weatherall

    Is this not enough to get rid of them?

    The New Stadium Reporter starts the story with “several city councillors”. Several usually means three. Above are the seven remaining Stadium Councillors. Maybe maths has gone the same way as reporting here.

    Any real newspaper would be all over that association but not here. The Otago Daily Times knows this and knows it stadium councillors. Not a single reference to their past voting position.

    That position means votes will be required by the corporations before next election and nothing good will come from this. They should be excluded as a massive conflict and stood down immediately as perpetual risk to the future of Dunedin.

    The death march of the city begins if they are allowed to vote.

    Who are the Stadium Councillors?

  57. Peter

    Good points Phil. The rugby calendar is already ‘chocker’, so no more income – little as it is – from that corner. Even the big match two weeks ago was just a sop for the ORFU’s little pickle. An act of charity.
    Then we go back to concerts and conferences/meetings (often the same thing) for that ‘multi purpose’ aspect for future income. Slim pickings there. Calvin can recite the conference scenario, built up over the years, with the Town Hall, which will be competing with the stadium for conferences….. if Darren allows that. (I understand the stadium design is hopeless for bigger conferences. Pillars in the middle of the room, obscuring vision to view powerpoint, is not helpful.)
    Old, and new, stadium councillors still thinking the stadium can work if we just throw more money at it? Really?

  58. Peter

    The whipping into line of those seven councillors was not too subtle. Note the pressure on Dave Cull, who is already signalling yet another change of heart. He finds Anadarko’s information ‘interesting and informative’ and is urging others to have a look too.Dave will find the green prong of his supporters will wilt…like the anti stadium prong…in the next election, so will have to throw his hat in with Syd and the boys.Supporting cycle way initiatives, which are not too expensive or controversial, won’t cut it with the Green lobby, who supported him last election, if he goes down the ‘Black Gold’ direction.
    Above all, Dave wants to be Mayor again and he wants the support of the powerful in this city. They are his new friends after all.

  59. Hype O'Thermia

    On Morning Report today, Fubar’s new Burden managed a verbal 3 card trick that would have amazed even an old-time East End wide boy. Predicted loss of $millions will in fact be a loss of $hundred-thousands, which = a return to > > [money-shuffling entities] > > Council, which indicates a profit. I think I missed a few salient points along the way wrestling with school maths memories about how negative numbers work, think now the rule must be “If you add enough negative numbers together you get a positive sum.” Must ask Bev next time I see her.

  60. Phil

    I liked his comment the other week that the stadium would turn a profit if they didn’t have to pay rent.

    Wouldn’t we all ?

  61. Russell Garbutt

    I’m sure Elizabeth will put up the link to Burden’s piece on RNZ Morning Report.

    It was unbelievable. It would also have been humorous if it wasn’t so appallingly stupid. This guy is either a nutter, or doesn’t have any idea of how debt, debt servicing etc actually is. Mind you, Geoff Robinson should have been cringing at why his valid questions just got turned into corporate gobbledygook going forward. Burden is a fool based on this interview.

  62. Hype O'Thermia

    Or a born-again East End wide boy.

  63. Peter

    A transcript of Burden’s RNZ Morning Report would also be helpful if someone has time to do it.

    {Publication of full transcripts breaks copyright held by Radio New Zealand. Excerpts may be published at here. -Eds}

  64. amanda

    it’s so predicable of the ODT. The ODT does not mention the fact that all of those councillors voted for the stadium fiscal disaster, and now they hope that Big Oil will get them out of the fiscal mess they have created. Another little effort will be to sell off our water. In a Labour town people should wake up to the fact that our council has a very Right Wing majority. Very pertinent information for voters I would have thought. The stadium cabal can only get away with the stadium rort if they sell the city down the river. But this is the ODT so no-one must EVER mention who is responsible for the stadium debacle. Otherwise the ODT won’t get their preferred stadium councillors and their agenda of selling the city down the river elected at next year’s election. Wake up Dunedin.

  65. amanda

    Our own little GOP drop kicks without the religious mania. Take a bow Crs Hudson, Brown, Noone, Collins, Bezett, Weatherall and Acklin, you created the debt with your trickle down economics and crony ‘capitalism’, and now you hope to make the city pay even more for your stupidity. Will be interesting to see how that works out for you.

  66. Elizabeth

    ### ODT Online Mon, 15 Oct 2012
    Thousands attend Stadium market
    Dunedin’s newest market opened under cover yesterday. The inaugural Stadium Market attracted more than 100 stall holders and thousands of shoppers to Forsyth Barr Stadium. David Humphrey, of the Rotary Club of Dunedin Central, said the market was several years in the planning and was a joint venture with Dunedin Venues Management Ltd.
    Read more

  67. Peter

    It will be interesting to see how this market goes. The South Dunedin Farmers Market did not last long, but will this one? How many people were just going to have a look? What effect will it have on the Saturday market by the railway station? Can both survive?

    • Elizabeth

      ODT should have aimed for some customer reaction – surely 1000s turning up merits sample comments from the crowd and vendors? I know we got good press in 2003 when we started up the Otago Farmers Market. Maybe there’s more in the ODT print edition, haven’t seen it yet. Wonder if there’s a ratepayer subsidy involved (see costs to DVML of the ‘joint venture’). Rhetorical. Time for more LGOIMA requests to Mr Burden.

      • Elizabeth

        This market should make times interesting for IRD circulating in the crowd – as they do, looking at all vendors in the weeks to come. That’s what we pay our taxes for, enforcement and more ;)

        • Elizabeth

          The bulls*** mayor rides again. And so does Darren boy. Farry is already written OFF.

          ### 7:43PM Sunday October 14, 2012
          Dunedin stadium doubles as Sunday market
          Source: ONE News
          Dunedin’s controversial indoor stadium is now doing double duty as a market. A new Sunday market that launched today has been hailed as a win-win for residents and visitors to the city alike.

          “This is the kind of thing that people coming into a new area like to have a look at. It’s a window onto the community for cruise ship passengers,” said Dunedin Mayor Dave Cull.

          When it was built in time for last year’s Rugby World Cup, the stadium was touted as a community-oriented facility. Now it is starting to live up to that billing, says ONE News reporter Max Bania in Dunedin. “we’re trying to get that message out there slowly but surely that it isn’t just all about rugby, there’s so much more that we can deliver in this stadium,” said Dunedin Venues CEO Darren Burdon. At today’s opening market was a sausage sizzle and arts and craft, as well as whitebait, Fijian-Indian food and pineapple bread.

        • Elizabeth

          I recall way back when…. the extreme rudeness that Mr Farry exhibited when he wanted the well-proven and established Otago Farmers Market to “be” at the stadium. The OFM wasn’t set up for cruise liners, I might add.

          If you see 20 cruise ships jostling for berths (joke) at Port Chalmers on Sundays, be aware something died back in Dunedin, it was good sense.

          My assumption, all humour aside, is that Rotary ‘central’ will swing the business due to the Old Boys involved. And we all know what that means for central city cafes and food sellers on weekends. Because, we know Farry is stupid and vicious.

        • Elizabeth

          [TVNZ clip] So the vendor yelling out “home made” baking has a registered kitchen? Hello DCC Environmental Health, hope you’re all over the new market. Although, it’s not like you wouldn’t be.

  68. Calvin Oaten

    Peter, all you say is correct. Can / will it survive? More important, does it pay any rental for use of premises? If so, how much? If not, why? Does the Saturday Market pay a tenancy fee? Does anyone know? Or is it just another case of a freebie at the pleasure of the ratepayers? Who would answer these questions ? Not DVML nor Dave Cull I’ll wager.

  69. Peter

    Calvin, I think this is all about now turning the stadium into a very expensive ‘community centre’ where we can all just drop in for some freebies. It’s a bit like having ‘a cuppa and a bikkie’ with the folks. We all feel good……because nobody pays…. and we call this privilege as getting something for ‘free’. All part of the delusion of making the stadium work.
    On TV One News last night there was an item on the market, a positive spin story that of course didn’t carry the embarrassing news that this was not actually going to help pay the stadium off. Farry, Cull and Burden were interviewed. Farry was trying to put the idea across that this was proof of the stadium’s multipurpose use, while acknowledging the ‘previous’ doubts in the community that the stadium was just for rugby. Dave Cull was a little more circumspect. You could sense he knew the reality was that this event was not a paying one and therefore was nothing to crow about.
    I wonder who prompted this news story. Was it just Max Bania looking for a story from the South or was he put up to it by the promoters?

  70. Peter

    We bypassed the stadium market on Sunday and went down to the more homely Market Day at the Port Chalmers Town Hall. The prices for produce and plants were more reasonable too. Afterwards we had a coffee at the Port Royale and had a look at the Lady Thorn Rhododendron Dell. All together a more pleasurable place to go without the monolith of the sterile stadium dominating you.

  71. Calvin Oaten

    As I say, no mention of any fees to help the Charity Stadium along. Malcolm must be well pleased that he can ‘tick’ another box of ‘community do goodness’ towards his ‘beatification’. ‘Pope whatshisname’ will be adding up the brownie points as we speak. Let’s see, there was the F&P charity (since gone to Mexico), the montage of handouts (of other people’s monies) whilst occupying the Council Economic Development Committee chair, the chair of the ORFU followed by the Highlanders, the Stadium, the Orokonui Ecosanctuary, the St Joseph’s Cathedral renewal board, the forever granting of favours to whosoever wishes for his bountiful services, all in the interests of his fellow citizens. Question: will he be St. or Sir, first? Perhaps neither.

  72. Anonymous

    Depends if you can buy titles now (likely) and whether or not Cousin Farry can part with the money (unlikely). Ultra-greedy people tend to take everything they can get, then skip out on the bill and expectations when they come due.

  73. Anonymous

    Why were people crammed into a small area like cattle? There was a whole rugby ground available.

  74. Peter

    Calvin. Dispensing money to grateful others – even if it isn’t your own – is a powerful aphrodisiac. Enough said.
    Elizabeth. A lot worse if the vendor was yelling out ‘home bake’. Though that might help to pay for the stadium if a vendor fee was asked for!
    Anonymous. Wash your mouth out. How about the delicate turf!

  75. Phil

    I was interested to read the stadia requirements to be imposed by FIFA for the upcoming under 20 World Cup to be held in NZ. For those venues “lucky” enough to be selected, you get to enjoy the following: All gate takings go to FIFA, a zero venue hire fee will apply, the venue cannot host any other activity during the duration of the tournament, and the playing surface cannot be used for one month prior to the start date of the tournament. The last point effectively shuts down a stadium from the middle of May until the middle of July. So no Super Rugby in Dunedin. On the positive side, having the stadium shut for a month prior will cut down on the operating costs and result in a lesser loss for that period. Obviously offset by the losses incurred in hosting any matches. Either way it doesn’t benefit.

  76. Peter

    Succinctly stated, Phil. We scratch our heads at the wonderment of it all.

  77. Anonymous

    Looks like the ORFU are indicating that they WILL pick up the tab for the sponsors party this year:

  78. Anonymous

    GBP105 million is roughly what we spent on the stadium. In the UK, this would get you 330 acres, an indoor training pitch, 11 first-class outdoor pitches and a world-class training facility.

    Nowhere is it more appropriate to use the classic British footballing cliche: “We was robbed”

  79. Carol

    I guess we should expect to see the Mayor and the Rottweiler at the stadium market each Sunday from now on

    • Elizabeth

      Mayoral pageantry winding through the bric a brac doesn’t seem like a win for cruise ship passengers. But hey, I’m no expert in ‘devolving’ Dunedin tourism.

  80. Hype O'Thermia

    Ceremonials involving foreign or “ethnic” peoples in exotic dress seem to go down well.

  81. Elizabeth

    More concert drama elsewhere. Poor Terry Davies.
    Forsyth Barr Stadium (FBS) is so “off circuit”.

    Received from Anonymous
    Sun, 27 Jul 2014 at 1:25 p.m.

    Refer to Sunday Star-Times
    On page A8 there is an advert for the Bob Dylan concert in Christchurch on 10 September at CBS Arena. No mention of FBS. Also on page A5 is an article of a possible concert with Kanye West possibly coming to New Zealand for a concert in September — probably Auckland. Again no mention of FBS. How disappointing! NOT.
    FBS misses out again.

    SST 27.7.14 Bob Dylan ad pA8 (1)

  82. Bob Dylan sings “ABOUT” sad cities like Dunedin, he doesn’t sing “AT” them.

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