Carisbrook sale

### ODT Online Wed, 15 Feb 2012
Sale of Carisbrook poses a million-dollar mystery
By Steve Hepburn
Call it the confusing case of the mystery million. The cash-strapped Otago Rugby Football Union says it received $6 million for the sale of Carisbrook in 2009, and a university academic confirms the sale is listed as $6 million in the union’s books. But the Dunedin City Council, which bought the ground, and two former Otago union officials maintain the figure was $7 million. The union is battling financial problems, with Jeremy Curragh appointed as change manager, and the New Zealand Rugby Union lending it money to keep operations going.

University of Otago professor of accounting David Lont confirmed, after looking at the union’s annual report, the sale of Carisbrook was listed as a $6 million transaction. If indeed $7 million was the sale price, it was not recognised in the initial accounts or subsequent accounts, he said.

Read more

Posted by Elizabeth Kerr

86 Comments

Filed under DCC, Economics, Heritage, People, Politics, Project management, Property, Site, Sport, Stadiums

86 responses to “Carisbrook sale

  1. Hype O'Thermia

    MikeStK was asking about this SO-O-o long ago it’s not funny. What is funny is that his concerns were aired in the paper’s own comments online, yet it has taken this long for it to be taken up as a news item.

  2. Mike

    yes I think two years ago – it was glaringly obvious to me the first time I worked through the (I think) 2009 ORFU balance sheet and it must have been obvious to anyone running the ORFU at the time.

    My guess has always been that some portion of the parcel (maybe the houses across the street and/or the parking lot) were really owned by some friendly third party who was holding them so that Carisbrook could expand – and as part of some quid-pro-quo they were paid off as part of the Carisbrook settlement (the DCC must have known this at least in part because there would have been separate land transfers from some other party) – I keep meaning to spend the time and go through past ORFU balance sheets to see if the houses were added to the capital assets and where the money to buy them came from, my guess is that I probably wouldn’t find them

    Richard sort of half confirmed this last time we discussed this in the ODT pages

  3. amanda Kennedy

    ho hum, old news ODT. Mike figured this out ages ago. Funny that the ODT and its Business writer didn’t.

  4. Mike

    I’m sure they did, but didn’t think it ‘prudent’ to publish – not wanting to offend the powers that be and all that – mind you around the time we broke this we were trying to feed a bunch of stories quietly at the ODT, took several tries before they understood the evidence behind Guest’s online law business, and we were never able to get them to pick up on the Highlander’s/ORFU board member who was on Guest’s online rates bill, maybe that was a too hot potato (thank you anonymous benefactors for those last two tips)

  5. amanda kennedy

    A slow news day perhaps, no pouffy dress wedding or seagull droppings so they must attend to the lost million dollars that has disappeared between Cr Hudson giving it and the ORFU fat cats receiving it.

  6. Calvin Oaten

    The fact that Jim Harland, in reply to my question 12/6/09 “did the purchase price include the three properties, ie Carisbrook, Neville St parking and Burns St houses? His reply was: Yes.
    So, I suspect Mike is onto it with the idea that the houses were separate in some sort of trust or third party. Maybe the third party was financing and holding on behalf all along. Find the third party and I think you might well find the $1 million. How it managed to bypass the ORFU’s books when the DCC made a single all up payment is the crux of the matter.

  7. Anonymous

    The ODT finally got round to doing this story but then presented it as a “mystery” and rolled over again on the ‘no comment’ responses
    (although it was nice to see it on the front page instead of 34). When even auditors back away slowly something really fishy is going on. A million dollars is one million dollars and deserves every bit of investigative journalism. You can’t take a million out of the bank, you couldn’t lift it, nobody can stumble across it and no amount of saving a dollar or two each week will get you one. Yet this town is full of councillors, stakeholders and blase reporters who think we’ve all got a spare million or ten to lose down the back of a couch. Owners of a private business in Dunedin would literally shit in their pants if a million dollars fell off their books.

  8. James

    Perhaps DScene might fork out $4.50 per property and get the ownership history for each title, and then come back with some hard questions…

  9. Russell Garbutt

    Here is another news tip for the ODT – just who is Howard Research that seems to be able to provide DVML with all their marketing research that they need?

    I can’t find them, no-one else I know can find them.

    They may be a bonafide company with excellent credentials, but just as much they could be a one-man band lurking in a back office quite happy to provide DVML with a whole pile of figures that don’t mean anything.

    So, ODT, why not do us all a favour and follow up on yet another tip?

  10. Anonymous

    Would also like to see D Scene follow up its questioning of the Jacks Point story. Dunedin City Council former chief executive officer Jim Harland threatened the newspaper with the costs to investigate its own Dunedin City Holdings Ltd company Delta. Wasn’t it around $1200? Anyway, he’s gone and this questionable use of ratepayer money is another process in the dubious carry on at DCC needing audited.

    http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/dunedin-city-councils-delta-rescues-hanover-jacks-point-105123

  11. Russell Garbutt

    Actually folks, there are enough stories now receiving wider audiences that really mean the full, financial, forensic audit that many of us have been asking for, for a long time, all of a sudden now seem the only logical step the DCC can follow. If they don’t they are under immediate suspicion of collusion, deception or maybe a lot lot worse, if they do there will be things come out that they don’t want out. Which is it to be DCC? Transparency or what?

  12. Anonymous

    Heh. Those stadium supporters and their devotion to a stadium… apparently the missing million is just GST at 15% (which changed in October 2010). That explains all those ‘no comment’ responses, auditor included.

  13. Mike

    it also shows a misunderstanding of how GST works – $1m over $6m is 16.7%, not 15%

  14. Phil

    Most commercial transactions are quoted as excluding GST. One would assume that the $7 million purchase price also excluded GST, taking the GST explanation out of play.

    There were some Community Housing units on Burns Street which I “think” were on ORFU land. That might have created an issue with the final exchange of money versus the agreed purchase price. Possibly. Maybe.

  15. Phil

    Might be pure coincidence, but an “Andrea Howard” has prepared several reports in the past for the DCC with regard to the economic impact of several events at Carisbrook, including Tri Nations rugby matches and All Black test matches against France. She also carried out, and reported on, a number of surveys initiated by the DCC. Andrea Howard = Howard Research ? Close enough name and subject area to be worth a look.

    This particular Andrea is (or was) a research analyst employed by the DCC. She has previously worked in the same role for the University.

  16. Russell Garbutt

    Phil, I assume you have googled this name and came up with the same results as anyone else can. Or is there another likelihood for “Howard Research”? I intend sending an email to David Davies asking him to supply the credentials of Howard Research.

  17. Lindsay

    Apparently the union is battling financial problems. Really?
    If they have mislaid a million dollars that is hardly surprising.
    I have to stop laughing, the tears will damage the keyboard.

  18. Phil

    I’m sure I’ve just been a bit slow in catching up, Russell. Although I think I might have gotten my timeline back to front and that “my” Andrea worked for the university after her DCC employment, not prior to.

    DCC often sets up dummy companies for specific staff activities where it’s not desirable for the name “DCC” to appear. They do that a lot with property investments. Possibly the university has done the same thing here, or maybe Andrea has her own consultancy service separate from her role at the university. If it is indeed that same person. I can understand why they wouldn’t want to formally have the university or the DCC linked to this report given their direct interest in the venue as stakeholders. Slight conflict of interest.

  19. Russell Garbutt

    The following has been sent

    Dear Mr Davies

    Recently you published some economic impact figures in relation to the Elton John concert which was based upon research undertaken by “Howard Research”.

    Despite a number of people in the area of activity searching for any such company, no-one seems to know who, or what Howard Research is.

    Can you enlighten me as to their background, perhaps point to their track record of proven economic impact measurements, and further supply me with the brief given by DVML to Howard Research?

    I would remind you that any payment made to Howard Research, or anyone else for that matter by DVML, is largely made by ratepayers, and as a ratepayer I am anxious to ensure that the amount spent on my behalf is both necessary and worthwhile.

    Eagerly awaiting your prompt response.

    Russell Garbutt

  20. Calvin Oaten

    Russell, if that doesn’t work, and as DVML is a DCC CCO, a request under the LGOIMA to the DCC addressed through the Governance Officer will get a response. It looks like Phil is onto it though. That report on the NZ/France Test is almost by rote.

  21. Anonymous

    I don’t think Andrea Howard (ex DCC EDU) consults on economic impact any longer. I may be wrong.

    • Elizabeth

      http://www.eeotrust.org.nz/peoplepower/view_case.cfm?id=11
      [November 2004]
      Formerly a research analyst within the Economic Development Unit (EDU) of council, Andrea Howard is now a policy analyst. The EDU has been actively involved in increasing awareness of the employment opportunities in Dunedin since 2002. It discovered that skills shortages in the region were constraining medium and long-term economic growth within the city and the region, with one-third of all businesses adversely affected.

      ****

      http://www.ch9.co.nz/node/2097
      Dunedinites Chance To Have Their Say
      April 27, 2007 – 9:54am
      Dunedin residents will get a chance to have their say on the city in the annual Residents Opinion survey being sent out this weekend. Households are selected at random to particpate in the survey which asks how residents feel about Dunedin as well as how satisfied they are with services and facilities the Council provides. The survey covers the spectrum of Council activites, from safety on the streets to opinions on Carisbrook. DCC Policy Analyst Andrea Howard says it’s the best means the council has for getting community feedback. She says they’ll investigate any issues that arise from the responses, to see if they need to alter the services. The results of the survey will be available in early July.

      ****

      http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/document/pdf/201138/MasterCard%20Economic%20Impact1.pdf
      Economic Impact Report on Global Rugby
      PART IV: RUGBY WORLD CUP 2011
      Commissioned by MasterCard Worldwide
      13 September 2011
      (page 21)
      Howard, A., (2008) 2008 Tri Nations Economic Impact Study, 12th July 2008, Carisbrook, Dunedin; Report Prepared by Andrea Howard for the Dunedin City Council
      Howard, A., (2009) Economic Impact Study All Blacks v France June 13 2009; Report Prepared by Andrea Howard for the Dunedin City Council

  22. Phil

    There may be no connection between the 2 Howards, but the phrases used in the reports published 2 years apart are spookily similar:

    “The Elton John concert at Forsyth Barr Stadium is estimated to have pumped $14.9 million into the wider Dunedin economy, a survey reveals” vs “The study showed $11.3 million was pumped into the economy from the test,”.

    “The total economic impact of the concert was estimated at $14.9 million, and the direct value added estimated at $3.8 million – the equivalent of 123 full-time jobs over a year.” vs ” …with a total value added of $5.3 million…. The economic boost from the test would create 126 full-time-equivalent jobs,”

    Might just be standard research lingo, but even the breakdown of spending uses the same categories and terms. Looks at face value like the 2 reports were written by the same person.

  23. Anonymous

    Loughrey got the followup for the “mystery” this morning. So rugby guy is out and the council guy tagged in. Would have preferred someone with a different track record. As he reports, it raises more questions, and questions are generally something to lead a reporter to the story, but I’m not feeling confident the answers will be forthcoming.

  24. Russell Garbutt

    It is now reported that David Davies says that the type of report that is produced by Howard Research uses multipliers that may be questioned by others and there may be some disagreement in the findings. But it also seems that only one supplier of this data/research is being used. While Mr Davies says that research will continue to be used, there is no indication that another supplier will be used. I wonder why this is? The suspicion is that the supplier reports the results that the purchaser wants.

    There are websites here in New Zealand that have databases of many suppliers of economic impact or other types of market research and all seem to be operating in a very open way. Most have their own websites, lists of their staff and principle researchers, lists of their major achievements. It seems to be the case that DVML choose not to use one of this type of supplier of research – why?

    • Elizabeth

      ### ODT Online Thu, 16 Feb 2012
      ‘Missing’ $1 million paid to property trust
      By David Loughrey
      Information about the “missing” $1 million from the sale of Carisbrook in 2009 has been uncovered, but while it sheds light on the situation, it raises more questions. […] sale and purchase agreements for Carisbrook, obtained yesterday by the ODT, show Carisbrook was, indeed, sold to the Dunedin City Council for $6 million. The vendor was the Otago Rugby Football Union. The other $1 million is also accounted for in the sale, for the purchase by the council of residential buildings in Burns St. Carisbrook had three sections of land: the stadium itself, the car park next door, and the Burns St buildings. The vendor for the Burns St buildings, though, was not the ORFU, but the Property Holdings Charitable Trust.
      Details of the Property Holdings Charitable Trust could not be found yesterday, as the trust does not appear to be listed on the Companies Office societies and trusts register.
      Read more

  25. Calvin Oaten

    The most concise ‘economic benefit’ research I use is simply; how has/did the event affected my financial situation? Almost always the answer is ‘no improvement, or an indirect cost, as in restriction of services and increase in fixed overheads ie rates’. Perhaps I should get into using multiples. Problem, would these increase or decrease my feeling of wealth? Depends on the multiple and the application of same. You see, one could just as easily use negative multiples as positive, but somehow these people only use positive. More work needs to be done by Ms Howard, I suspect.

  26. Russell Garbutt

    Calvin – you are dead right about applying multipliers in a “negative” sense as well. If the net result of an event was a cost, then the economic impact should be saying that it cost the city x number of jobs.

    It is doubly suspicious in that David Davies is reported as saying that this economic impact research will be used to further market the stadium. Trouble is that if he toddles off to Lady Gaga’s management and tells them that Elton provided $15m of economic good to Dunedin, then the pressure is on him to reduce the fee of the stadium. If it is true as has been widely rumoured that the stadium is provided at no real cost, then what is he going to do? Pay the promoters to come? Seems to be what he is saying.

    The reality is that we all know that the stadium’s economic impact on the City is a huge negative sum because we will never recoup the cost. If we start from the known position of the total debt and all costs associated with it, then all we are doing by staging anything is reducing that debt by a tiny amount and the income is not being applied to those that have paid for it. Mother of 5 in inner Caversham has to pay increased rates, but it is hotel owner – let’s say Scenic Circle for example – that derives the benefit. Fair?

    • Elizabeth

      ### ODT Online Thu, 16 Feb 2012
      2012 ‘thin year’ for stadium-filling acts
      By Hamish McNeilly
      The economic impact of Elton John’s Dunedin concert will assist negotiations with other major artists, but those touring acts capable of filling the venue appeared to be “thin” this year, the stadium’s boss says. Last week, Dunedin Venues Management Ltd released to the Otago Daily Times the economic impact report from the November 25 concert. Chief executive David Davies said the study by Howard Research would be used to help entice other acts to the venue.
      Read more

      The covered stadium is now being described as “outdoor” by Mr Davies… wtf

      “One touring artist is Lady Gaga, who would perform at Auckland’s Vector Arena on June 7 and 8, but whose production was suited to a smaller indoor venue, rather than a larger “outdoor” venue such as Forsyth Barr Stadium.” -ODT

  27. Hype O'Thermia

    Indoor-outdoor flow, you couldn’t watch 5 minutes of a NZ home renovation program without getting large ear- and eye-fuls of it. Now it appears to apply equally to spin cycles. Wash Your Truth Even Whiter with Howard Brand Whitewash! See it demonstrated by David Davies on the shopping channel!

  28. Russell Garbutt

    Mr Davies of DVML has replied quickly to me which I think is good.

    His reply reads:

    Russell

    Thank you for the email. My first duty is to report to a Board of Directors and then our shareholders, not as you intimate a collection of individuals. The normal process of discussion took place to establish a desire to carry out the research.

    The cost and availability of alternatives were discussed and Andrea Howard, whom I believe you are familiar with, was nominated to carry out the work. We reached this decision based on her previous work for the DCC and other similar bodies within the region and having received satisfactory feedback we were able to issue a brief that will over time give us a constant methodology for work around other major events at the venue.

    If you have any other comments please do not hesitate to contact me further.

    DAVID DAVIES
    CHIEF EXECUTIVE

    I have acknowledged Mr Davies reply and assured him that I don’t have a clue who Andrea Howard is, am certainly not familiar with her, and I also have said that I don’t think we will agree on his rationale in the response.

    Sounds to me though that Andrea Howard has got an on-going contract for DVML economic impact reports on stadium activities.

  29. Mike

    I went down this road a while ago – “CBCT Foundation Trust” is a red herring, it’s the Caversham Baptist Community Church

    BTW I see Guy Hedderwick has a new title
    http://www.orfu.co.nz/content/about-us/default.aspx

    • Elizabeth

      Hmmm.
      Joy, Russell. I can only infer Mr Davies might have read What if? last night. But that is a bold inference on my part.

      Well done Mike – Guy is now DVML and ORFU. Does that mean DVML is now ORFU, or is ORFU now DVML. Silly unsuspecting me, I always struggle with NO separations, called fudging, or slippage in the boys’ world. Poor long suffering ratepayers. Who is paying a (DCC CCO) DVML staffer to be ORFU.

      [spelling it out]
      Otago Rugby Football Union Staff List:
      Transition Manager Guy Hedderwick guy.hedderwick@dunedinvenues.co.nz
      Commercial & Marketing Guy Hedderwick guy.hedderwick@dunedinvenue.co.nz [sic]

  30. Mike

    I also realised when I thought it through that although the ORFU is crying poor and want the city to fund their every need, they have a million dollars squirreled away in a trust they can draw on – let them spend that first (and raise their ticket prices) before we provide them with any extra support

    Alternatively, since that million dollars did nothing to bolster the ORFU’s bottom line when the DCC decided to prop them up, the city should have only given them $6M – the trust could have sold the properties at their leisure

    It’s also mighty suspicious that the properties were worth exactly $1m and no change

    (I was also wondering if maybe they were hiding it from the NZRFU more than anyone else)

  31. Hype O'Thermia

    How many Burns St buildings were in the package? What is their valuation on QV http://qv.co.nz/ I wonder.

    • Elizabeth

      Rates Accounts as at 16 February 2012 (previously, as at 14 July 2010):

      47 Burns St – Ratepayer: DCC City Property (same)
      51 Burns St, multi-unit residential – Ratepayer: DCC City Property E P H (same)
      55 Burns St – Ratepayer: DCC City Property (same)

      45 Burns St – Ratepayer: G and C Dickson Limited (DCC City Property)
      57 Burns St – Ratepayer: G and C Dickson Limited (DCC City Property)
      59 Burns St – Ratepayer: G and C Dickson Limited (DCC City Property)
      63 Burns St – Ratepayer: G and C Dickson Limited (DCC City Property)
      67 Burns St – Ratepayer: G and C Dickson Limited (DCC City Property)
      69 Burns St – Ratepayer: G and C Dickson Limited (DCC City Property)
      73 Burns St – Ratepayer: David Eagles and Marie Louise Campbell, of Wellington (same)
      Unit A, 55 Murrayfield St – Ratepayer: Bernice Lexie and David Webster, of Dunedin (same)
      Unit B, 55 Murrayfield St – Ratepayer: CBCT Foundation Trust, of Dunedin [see Caversham Baptist Church] (same)

  32. Anonymous

    It’s odd. I recall a conversation that I had with one of the Burns St property owners some years ago. “Dunedin is run by 5 families”, he said. “Mine is one of those 5.”

  33. Anonymous

    So it is Andrea Howard, ex Policy Analyst, who wrote the economic impact reports for previous test matches and now with the University of Otago. This is hardly independent work. And I wonder how this squares with University Policy of staff working for their own companies.

  34. Phil

    Whoever is paying her, they need to pay to send her on a refresher course. That “multiplier factor” myth, which goes something along the lines of “every one dollar returns 3 dollars” (sounds like a dodgy advert for a heatpump) was debunked years ago by stadium operators around the world. Every dollar spent by someone in the region takes one dollar away from someone else in the region. There is no more money being spent. The money given to the taxi driver going to the stadium is the money that is not given to the video store owner. Ditto for the theoretical jobs created lark. An extra workload in one area is counterbalanced by a reduced workload in another area. It’s a zero effect.

  35. Anonymous

    [Elizabeth], he’s not a transition manager. He’s a “transistion manager”. Must be some new rugby thing? They like to make stuff up. Especially if the bill for any work, materials and fudging can be picked up by the ratepayer.

    {Yep. The typo at ORFU’s website is acknowledged… just as we endeavour to get email addresses right. See http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/189069/orfu-be-run-dvml “The recently advertised sales and marketing and rugby manager positions would be put on hold until the transition had been completed.” -Eds}

  36. Mike

    Phil: I probably sound like a broken record now trying to explain to people that money spent locally does not make us (as a whole) more wealthy (in fact it drains away 15% at every step) – on the other hand money brought in from outside the region does – so actually making things (or growing things, or processing things to make them more valuable) and selling them elsewhere is a very good thing, as is tourism that brings money in to the economy.

    But a concert (or a rugby game) does bring people from outside of town – but that’s a smallish proportion of the number of local people who will attend, the amount the visitors spend has to be balanced against the total amount (that everyone, locals and visitors) spent that Elton and the promoter took out of town with them.

    Dunedin also doesn’t have a lot of hotel beds just sitting idle (or a lot of hotel beds at all) – something like Elton’s concert almost certainly displaced a lot of regular tourists – to consider the amount of wealth transferred into the region by the concert you need to also subtract the amount that didn’t come in – did the Elton visitors also go on the tourist train? (the RWC visitors didn’t), did they visit the penguins? etc etc.

    Cash flow is not wealth. The real test of the stadium investment is not the cash flow it creates, but the amount of cash it leaves behind when it stops flowing.

  37. Russell Garbutt

    Ah, but Mike, it appears that the long-term contractee is in a position to generate exactly the figures that David Davies needs to market the stadium. Never mind that the multipliers are under question, never mind that the results are open to interpretation and argument, never mind a whole lot of peripheral stuff surrounding Howard Research that I’m not privy to. At the end of the day, as we have seen from the Marketing Bureau Ltd, what is provided in this area can be expensive BS but the City is perfectly used to that.

  38. Phil

    Thanks, Elizabeth. I cringe when I see those headlines. Naturally it focuses solely on its own area of interest. It ignores the internal revenue results which showed that New Zealanders spend considerably less money during the same period. Balancing the tourism dollar with the staging costs factored in. Although I believe that the tourism economies of Australia and the Pacific Islands did increase as a result of the exodus of NZers for those 6 weeks. So there was a gain. Just not for us.

  39. Phil

    Exactly, Mike. A bit of a brick wall banging exercise at times. I’ve seen some figures giving the number of people who travelled to the stadium from outside of Dunedin City. At face value it looks quite good, typically around 30%. But when you drill down a little deeper, you find that the majority of that 30% lived within a couple of hours drive of the city (Timaru to Invercargill, to Alexandra). Those people didn’t stay in the hotels, or drink at the bars. They loaded the family back into the car and drove back home the same day. In reality, it is only about 10% of the attendees who came from a far enough distance to make use of the facilities within the city. They brought wealth into the city.

  40. Mike

    Yes you’re right – though as I’ve pointed out recently people don’t travel like that as much as they used to back when the games were in the afternoon – way too easy to turn on the big screen telly

    And given that the stadium is being funded by ORC rates of all people in Otago you really have to count the entire province as ‘local’ when you’re considering the economic effect of the stadium – to be fair people outside Dunedin are paying less so I’d maybe pro-rate any non-local contribution by 50% or so

  41. Hype O'Thermia

    Local – Otago region – people are likely to have friends & rellies to stay with. May take their hosts out for a meal but are just as likely to bring them some food and drinks, anyway they reciprocate them when the Dunedin people take a break out of town. NZ being so small even people from all-over tend to know people they can stay with, it’s a good opportunity to catch up with friends as well as free accommodation. Numbers of visitors staying overnight isn’t the same as numbers of people paying for accommodation and eating out.

  42. Mike

    You’re completely right – basically the real world is complex as much as one may want to simply make simple models that say “people do this” it’s never that simple – perhaps “people mostly do this” might be a better way to characterise things that we’ve been saying

    Interestingly one probably could measure transborder capital flows and come up with some idea if NZ made any money out of the RWC (after the IRB moved their loot offshore) but the relevant data for Dunedin or Otago really doesn’t exist

  43. anon

    Speaking of cringeworthy. The latest ORFU story isn’t looking good for the ratepayers. It appears the ODT hasn’t pulled itself up off the floor yet. It started in well, but provided little answers yesterday and came back with the below status quo today. Not surprised, but definitely disappointed.

    ‘The union was in discussions with sponsors, the bank, and other key stakeholders to draw up a plan to return to profit, and Mr Curragh admitted the union’s viability was teetering.’

    ‘Mr Graham said there was nothing untoward in the action and it was normal for the $1 million diverted to the trust to not show up in the union’s accounts.’

    Mostly the “key stakeholders” gives me little faith the ratepayers will not be abused again, certainly while the council is still infested with stadium councillors and a new leader with a tendency to roll over for the wants of rugby.

    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/198106/orfu-teetering-no-bail-out

  44. Calvin Oaten

    Speaking of positive/negative ‘multiples’, I wonder if Andrea Howard treats the fact that the NZRFU takes all Test gate monies, giving back to the host union a ‘match fee’ which is to cover expenses only. As even with a full house at least 70% of patrons are local citizens, that represents an enormous ‘negative multiple’ of capital outflow from the city. Don’t suppose she would be made aware of that by her clients, as it would not fit their hymn sheets.

  45. Elizabeth

    ### ch9.co.nz March 14, 2012 – 6:35pm
    Several parties interested in buying Carisbrook
    There are several parties interested in buying Carisbrook with a week and a half to go, the principal realtor says. The prime commercial and industrial site, which was once known as the House of Pain, is due to be sold by deadline treaty on 23 March. Colliers Principal, Stephen Cairns, says there are several parties who the company is talking with, and he considered the sale was progressing well. The sale includes 35,000 sq m of land, and is being marketed as an “unparalleled development opportunity”.
    Video

    • Elizabeth

      Further: City Property has gained consent to subdivide Carisbrook carpark (24 Burns St) – listed today.
      Thanks, Source.

      http://www.dunedin.govt.nz/services/planning/browse-non-notified-decisions
      24 Burns Street Dunedin (SUB-2012-12)
      This consent was an application to/for subdivision creating 3 lots at 24 Burns Street Dunedin. This was considered by the Council’s Senior Planner (Consents) on 7 March 2012.

      • Elizabeth

        ### radionz.co.nz Friday 23 March 2012
        Morning Report with Geoff Robinson & Simon Mercep
        08:41 Fears former Carisbrook stadium could lay idle for years
        A Dunedin business group are worried the site of the former stadium Carisbrook might lie derelict for years. (3′19″)
        Audio | Download: Ogg Vorbis MP3 | Embed

        • Elizabeth

          ### ch9.co.nz March 23, 2012 – 6:25pm
          Carisbrook yet to get a confirmed buyer
          The sale by deadline treaty of Carisbrook hasn’t netted a confirmed buyer, yet. However principal realtor, and former Otago Regional Council Chairman, Stephen Cairns, is to present offers to the owners this evening.
          Video

        • Elizabeth

          Two of the potential buyers are from Dunedin, one from further north, and one from the North Island.

          ### ODT Online Tue, 27 Mar 2012
          Four offers for Carisbrook
          By David Loughrey
          The “for sale” signs at Dunedin’s Carisbrook Stadium may soon be replaced with “sold” signs, after a deadline on offers at the weekend resulted in four possible new owners for the House of Pain. Dunedin City Council property manager Robert Clark described the parties as showing “reasonably strong interest” in the ground, and said having four was “without doubt” helpful to develop a competitive environment. A fifth offer has been tabled for the neighbouring car park.
          Read more

  46. Ripped Off Ratepayer

    Snap. It’s a pair. Apparently Stephen Cairns is the only man in New Zealand who can sell big stuff. Looks like the former ORC chairman and stadium councillor has been welcomed back into the fold at the public feeding trough. Those ratepayer millions were real tasty but it ain’t going to be the $7.5M feast this time – it’ll be a small desert for private business. Fire sale here they come or ’50 cents in the dollar’ as new Stadium Mayor Dave Cull likes to explain it away.

    Dunedin, it’s all rort here!

    —–
    Who are the Stadium Councillors?
    https://dunedinstadium.wordpress.com/2012/02/17/does-the-insolvent-orfu-deserve-any-more-community-support/#comment-22110

  47. Peter

    Don’t you just love how the ODT/Loughrey has fudged Stephen Cairns’ position as head of Colliers International (Dunedin). Nothing is made explicit that he was head of DTZ (which later joined Colliers), the agent that sold the stadium land, while he was ORC Chairman, and voted for the stadium. Ooo.. no… we can’t mention ‘conflict of interest’, can we.

  48. Anonymous

    I’m just waiting for the completion of the money-go-round. New purchaser acquires Carisbrook, commences dismantlement of corporate boxes (as designed). Sells them to DCC to be installed at University Oval or to Edgar’s Queenstown Events Centre.
    If done right, the clearing of the ground would return a tidy profit. It will be very interesting to see what the offers are and on what basis they are conditional.

    • Elizabeth

      Odd reporting by City Property. Drip feed.

      ### ODT Online Fri, 30 Mar 2012
      Burns St properties sold by DCC
      By David Loughrey
      The majority of one of three parcels of land at Carisbrook Stadium has been sold, with the Dunedin City Council securing a return of about $700,000.

      Sale and purchase agreements for Carisbrook obtained by the Otago Daily Times showed Carisbrook was sold to the Dunedin City Council for $6 million. The other $1 million was for the purchase by the council of the residential buildings in Burns St from the [ORFU] Property Holdings Charitable Trust.

      Read more

      • Elizabeth

        See comment by Russell Garbutt at another thread. Link

      • Elizabeth

        ODT states:
        Details of the Property Holdings Charitable Trust could not be found yesterday, as the trust does not appear to be listed on the Companies Office societies and trusts register.
        http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/197941/missing-1-million-paid-property-trust

      • Elizabeth

        Robert Clark’s secret society continues. If DCC didn’t have staff, rates would be so much cheaper – the staff are lined up for so many new millions (“Boohoo, we forgot to budget this that and, well, everything!”) that I seek from Chief Executive Paul Orders a rates and rents holiday of 3 years for all citizens. The offer is not open to staff and their families.

        ### ODT Online Fri, 18 May 2012
        Another piece of Carisbrook collection sold
        By Rosie Manins
        The Dunedin City Council has sold another piece of its Carisbrook property collection. It has an unconditional agreement on half of a 5000sq m section which used to be the stadium members’ car park on the corner of Burns St. DCC property manager Robert Clark would not disclose the sale amount or identify the purchaser.
        An additional $143,000 was needed for Carisbrook debt servicing and basic maintenance in the 2012-13 financial year.
        Read more

        • Elizabeth

          ### ODT Online Fri, 27 Jul 2012
          Carisbrook deal expected before Christmas
          By Debbie Porteous
          The Dunedin City Council is working towards closing a deal on Carisbrook before Christmas. City property manager Robert Clark this week confirmed comments made to Newstalk ZB that the council was in talks with two serious prospective buyers for the stadium. In May, Mr Clark told city councillors there were five interested parties – a Dunedin investor, a Dunedin family, an expatriate with a “substantial amount of money” and two Christchurch-based organisations.
          Read more

  49. Hype O'Thermia

    Place your bets now.
    After the deal is concluded we will be told
    * the price it was sold for
    * the other offers
    * it’s commercially sensitive
    * confidentiality is a condition of the contract
    * only that it has been sold.

  50. Anonymous

    Delta was suggested on this site in March.

    But now the Otago Rugby Times and the Dunedin City Corrupt are playing a wee game with ‘a Dunedin investor, a Dunedin family, an expatriate with a “substantial amount of money” and two Christchurch-based organisations.’

    Their wee in-jokes suck.

    (Can’t figure it but annoying tune about being a Farry keeps popping into my head.)

  51. Hype O'Thermia

    “Nobody loves a Farry when he’s rorty”? Reminder of the tune:

  52. Anonymous

    So they are dealing with 5 interested parties, but they only have 2 offers?
    Or do some of those categories overlap?
    Or are they dealing with the Dunedin investor, the branch of the Dunedin Family and the expatriate with a substantial amount of money to tell them how to negotiate with the two ChCh-based outfits?

  53. Calvin Oaten

    The idea of selling Carisbrook is counter productive. If and when the DCC break with the ORFU and all things rugby finally comes (and it will), the option of giving Carisbrook back to the ORFU, telling them that they are on their own, is the way to go. Sell it, and the ‘ace’ card is gone. Think about it. As it is at present the DCC – read ratepayers – have not only provided a home for a terminally ill patient, but we are also picking up all health costs. In return for all this, the patient has two ‘thuggish’ sons who are presently suing its sole benefactor for $1million. How grateful is that? When the patient finally ‘carks’, Carisbrook is the logical final resting place. So please DCC, if you have any foresight at all, do not sell!!!

  54. JimmyJones

    With the uncertain future of the FB Stadium, selling Carisbrook seems very foolish. However from the renters and ratepayers point of view, having nowhere to play pro-rugby might mean that we can stop funding/subsidizing the ORFU.

  55. Russell Garbutt

    Remember the justification at the time for buying the damn thing? It was that famous short person Jimbo Harland who said the city desperately needed industrial land (because they used the stuff they had by the harbour for their rugby mates) and of course they needed the ORFU to be strong financial anchor tenants for the new plaything. Harland, and his pro-stadium councillors were deceiving the ratepayers then and it still goes on on a daily basis. And what eventually happened to Jimbo? One can only hope that the same thing will happen in spades for others within the DCC that lied – some on oath if I recall correctly.

  56. amanda

    Yes, but no prizes for which way Cull The Ineffective will jump; standing up to bullies is not his style, he would rather bend over backwards and get Dunedin people to pay for Corporate rugby bullies to live in the manner to which they have become accustomed.

  57. amanda

    Wonder what rugby devotees think about their corporate managers grabbing $1 million from Dunedin people?

    • Elizabeth

      How immune we’ve become to the odd $480k, $750k, $1m, and larger $$$millions being pilfered here and there with great regularity by Sydney Brown and team for the Stadium/DVML/ORFU.

      Not.

      Although this is the expectation lumped upon us. Live, forget and be blessed. Crissakes People, keep buying rugby tickets in preference to food, water, clothing and shelter.

      Not.

      We believe Sydney Brown should retire comfortably. Syd’s gold filling glints in the Taieri sunshine, a sign of his benign philanthropy.

      Not.

    • Elizabeth

      Actually amanda, what I’d like to see is a spreadsheet of all the sums of money and the value of all services, facilities and other resources that DCC has contributed to professional rugby (ORFU and Highlanders) since this RUGBY rort started – both the publicly acknowledged items and the under the table items.
      Then, I’d like to see alongside that another list capturing all public funding put to professional rugby in the Southern Region that was illegally gained through charitable grants (public funds) and other illegal or nefarious channels.

      Then…
      Add the two totals together to see how edifying our corporate Soaks/Boards/Crooks of professional rugby truly are.

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