Which boys have their hands out for Carisbrook?

As the great rort continues…

### ODT Online Wed, 20 Apr 2011
Decision soon on Carisbrook’s fate
By David Loughrey
A final decision on the future of Dunedin’s historic Carisbrook stadium should be only weeks away, with one last round of discussion on the issue to start soon. Asked where the Carisbrook matter stood, Dunedin City Council finance, strategy and development committee chairman Cr Syd Brown said a resolution passed in January had been included for public consultation in the annual plan, and a decision would be made after deliberations.
Read more

Posted by Elizabeth Kerr


Filed under Economics, Heritage, People, Politics, Project management, Site, Sport, Stadiums, Urban design

26 responses to “Which boys have their hands out for Carisbrook?

  1. Russell Garbutt

    Lest we forget.

    These packages of land were valued by a land agent somewhere round the $3m. The ORFU owed about $6.5m to the DCC and the BNZ and didn’t have the money to repay. All of a sudden a valuation appeared to “justify” the DCC purchasing the packages of land from the ORFU for $7m which wrote off the loans (something you may remember M Farry assured me would happen some years ago). The purpose of the purchase was to enable the DCC to obtain much needed industrial land.

    Next we get some pointless consultations about what to do with the land and various groups came up with ideas. Pointless because the DCC had already decided what it wanted to do with the land.

    Next it was confirmed that the purpose of the purchase was to on-sell and assurances were given by a number of Councillors that the DCC may indeed not only get their money back, but maybe make a profit.

    Now, my point is simple.

    The DCC had no business whatsoever in financially bailing out the ORFU from their self-imposed plight. The ORFU owned the packages of land and could have sold it as would any other business. I could even recommend a very friendly land agent who has considerable experience in dealing with land purchases of this type. What was it that caused the DCC to become involved at all? No-one has given a logical or acceptable answer.

    The next step in this saga will be that we are told that due to current conditions the selling price will not meet the previous friendly valuation and the DCC will record a loss on the venture. Who will meet this loss? Us ratepayers. Who will walk away with the cash? Our rugby mates once again.

  2. Russell Garbutt

    I attended a very interesting discussion a little while ago where similar projects were being examined. A common thread of these projects was deception and incompetence.

    The people doing the deceiving generally benefitted from the project, the role of the incompetent was to ensure the project happened. While the discussion was not specifically about the new rugby stadium, a number of those present noted a number of similarities that I couldn’t possibly comment on.

    Another common thread was that the people that could generally least afford to contribute to the gains of the deceivers, were inevitably the main contributors, or were the ones most negatively affected.

  3. Calvin Oaten

    Isn’t that exactly what Bent Flyvbjerg the Danish academic postulates in his paper titled “Machiavellian Projects”?
    The formula is:
    Underestimated costs + Overestimated revenues + Undervalued environmental impacts + Overvalued economic development effects = Project approval. Add in a lot of lies and obfuscations.
    Seems to sum our stadium up pretty well.

  4. Russell Garbutt


    That sums it up pretty well in my mind. The only thing missing in the learned academic formula was the element of the person(s) that were going to benefit from a project.

    The obvious ones down the way are the previous landholders, but with continued digging, the REAL beneficiaries are close to the surface.

  5. Elizabeth

    Babble. What does this guy eat for breakfast at Warrington.

    ### ODT Online Thu, 28 Apr 2011
    Retro Rugby: ‘fringe’ benefits at the ‘Brook
    By Chris Skellett
    At last, the city stirs, and a somewhat belated discussion has begun as to how we can best accommodate the inconvenience of the Rugby World Cup.
    Read more

  6. Peter

    I started reading this and found it incredibly boring and pointless. Very disjointed. A bit like the CST ‘brainstorm’ for all the possible ‘multi uses’ for the stadium. Maybe Mr Skellett can organise and pay for his ‘ideas’.

  7. Russell Garbutt

    I also started reading this and gave up. Warrington? Hmm, a mixture of tofu, muesli and mung beans washed down with a lovely dandelion tea. Or was this Milton?

    • Elizabeth

      1. Yeah, two more shows at the stadium designed to make a killing…
      2. Would love to see the colour of the private sector funding too.
      3. Another of the ODT/DVML non stories.

      ### ODT Online Fri, 29 Apr 2011
      DVML chasing further shows
      By David Loughrey
      The company running the Forsyth Barr Stadium is hoping to lock in another two concerts for the facility.
      Read more

  8. wirehunt

    So. Well. FUCK, if these idiots didn’t know these overruns and all the rest of this crap was coming. But then they did know this. So we get screwed. And this is new how?

    The whole thing has been bollocks from the start. There have been so many lies told people have even forgotten who told which one. But I’m really pleased to see some of that lot have made a shitload of money. That’s good. Pleasing in fact.

    Oh, and on the welding of the new one. Yes there was some balls-ups, one guy was set up to take the fall. Welding inspectors were wondering why it was welded as it was to the codes it was welded to. But then they just did what they where told by some engineers…….. (or so I heard from “insert VERY good source here”)

  9. Kiwifly

    wow more unproven gossip from wirehunt …what a shocker

  10. Phil

    As opposed to fact filled one-liners.

  11. Elizabeth

    Await the “commercial sensitivity” label. You were previously consulted…

    ### ODT Online Mon, 26 Sep 2011
    Hope to recoup ‘Brook $7m
    By David Loughrey
    Initial responses from real estate companies vying for the job of selling the historic Carisbrook ground suggest the $7 million paid for the land by the Dunedin City Council might be recouped.

    Prices of between $200 and $300 per square metre are suggested in the real estate proposals which would result in a return of between $6 million and $9 million, says the DCC.

    With the marketing campaign soon to begin, the illustrious history of the 130-year-old-plus ground is expected to be an important aspect of its appeal to potential buyers. Other possible attractions are the nearby rail siding, multiple street frontages and the infrastructure already in place.
    Read more

  12. Calvin Oaten

    So, the warm up begins. Watch this space, first the talk up, then the false starts and the real estate spruikers hype followed by the realists offers and the, “well, this is the best offer you are going to get so best take it (so I can get my commission) because the market is really tough out there and there might not be a better offer to come. I know it is only for $3.2m but that is what the market is telling us, and face it, we genuinely thought the price would be around $6m or $7m but it is really tough out there, and we honestly think that you should accept this offer as the best in the circumstances. Put it to your council and I am sure that they will see the wisdom of our recommendation.” Has anyone heard that sort of spiel before?

  13. Hype O'Thermia

    You know, I’ve talked with other people who put their properties on the market. One thing we had in common was the high price the agent was “certain” it would sell for – prior to becoming sole agent. As time went on the agent recommended lowering and lowering the price. I’m sure this couldn’t be relevant to the value placed on Carisbrook. I’m sure agents weren’t aware that the DCC not only needs money but also needs to present to the public something that’s not another dud deal resulting in another loss.

  14. And why has it taken so long to get Carisbrook onto the market?
    In the past, the Council has talked of having Carisbrook sold by the time Otago Rugby gave up its lease i.e. now.
    The delay is going to cost ratepayers hundreds of thousands of dollars in loan charges.

    • Elizabeth

      ### ODT Online Wed, 19 Oct 2011
      Carisbrook up for tender
      Dunedin’s historic Carisbrook rugby ground will be put up for sale in an international tender process after the Dunedin City Council appointed Colliers International to handle the sale.
      Read more

      • Elizabeth

        ### ch9.co.nz 19 October 2011 – 6:20pm
        Carisbrook goal posts go on the market
        They may not be the best accessory for an inner-city apartment, but the Carisbrook goal posts are currently on the market. The TradeMe website is running an auction for the posts, with over $2,000 being added to the bid price over the last 24 hours. By mid-afternoon today, bids were around the $3,000 mark, with the auction scheduled to close on Monday. While the posts are up for sale to the highest bidder, Carisbrook itself is up for tender, and has a rateable value of $8.6m.

        • Elizabeth

          ### radionz.co.nz Wednesday 19 October 2011 at 18:27
          Checkpoint with Mary Wilson
          Agents prepare to put Carisbrook on the market
          Dunedin’s historic Carisbrook Stadium is now in the hands of real estate agents who are getting ready to market the 130-year-old ground both here and overseas. (2′16″)
          Download: Ogg Vorbis MP3 | Embed

        • Elizabeth

          ### ch9.co.nz December 9, 2011 – 6:18pm
          Carisbrook lights to head to Charistchurch
          The lights that have illuminated Carisbrook for the last 13 years are soon to have a new home in a new city. The lights are heading north to Rugby League Park in Christchurch, to enable major rugby games to be played again in the earthquake-damaged city. Rugby League Park will be the home of the Crusaders in the upcoming Super Rugby season. The four 48m tall lighting towers were originally installed at Carisbrook in 1998. Beginning on Monday, the towers will be disconnected and progressively dismantled before being transported in sections to Christchurch. The towers are currently owned by Delta and are being sold to the Christchurch City Council.

  15. Peter

    Surprise, surprise. It’s Colliers! You could see this coming from a mile off.

  16. Hype O'Thermia

    Colliers, the company Stephen Cairns works for, the very same Stephen Cairns from the Otago Regional Council who at the first sales-pitch meeting I attended where Mr Farry outlined why the Fubar stadium was the only good option at a pittance extra per ratepayer, ended the largely skeptical-to-hostile Q & A sessions with a long-winded brown-nosing panegyric so fulsome I expected him at any moment to drop to his knees and beg Malcolm to civilly unite with him. I wish he had, instead of displaying his devotion by tossing ORC ratepayers’ money into the Fubar stadium long-drop. What a tosser.

    {Stephen Cairns is the Branch Manager Dunedin Office, Colliers International, New Zealand -Eds}

  17. Peter

    We can only guess who ‘Colliers’ have got lined up to buy Carisbrook. Let’s see if we are wrong.

  18. Calvin Oaten

    “The towers are currently owned by Delta and are being sold to Christchurch City Council.” I think if one enquired and was told the truth, Delta or the DCC has always owned the towers. There has always been an un-denied rumour that the electricity to run them was a freebie as well.

  19. Russell Garbutt

    Calvin, getting the truth out of Delta/DCHL/DCC on the length of time that professional rugby has been getting a whole swag of cash, services, goods and equipment and product from the ratepayer through the vertical Delta/DCHL/DCC structure has been impossible so far.

    They all scream commercial sensitivity which is, of course, total and complete bollocks. It is OUR money, not theirs.

    I note this morning in the Oddity that in a small story that the DCC is now liable for these interest payments caused by the DCC borrowing to purchase Carisbrook from the ORFU (in other words acting as pawn broker) and that surprise, surprise, apart from a couple of tyre kickers there is no prospect for a prompt sale to recoup the $7m paid to the ORFU by us. The ODT continue to repeat that the DCC went through a long consultation process to find what the community wanted to do with Carisbrook while totally ignoring the fact that it was Chin/Harland that justified their bailout of the ORFU by saying that the land was needed urgently for industrial purposes and that as soon as the ORFU vacated it the land would be snapped up by eager buyers.

    The whole lot was nothing more than another bailout, cash handout by the City to the ORFU.

  20. Calvin Oaten

    Yes Russell, the DCC picked up the debt servicing costs on or about Aug 31 when the ORFU technically ceased to lease. That amounts to around $420,000 per annum or $8,077 odd a week, up until it is sold and title given. As we know, at $7m (less the houses already sold we believe) or more or less $6m for Carisbrook a sale might just be some way down the track. Of course we should add to that the subsidy (face it, that’s what it is) we are paying for the ORFU to gleefully share the costs at the Stadium.

    • Elizabeth

      ### ODT Online Sat, 10 Dec 2011
      ‘Aggressive’ marketing campaign for Carisbrook
      By David Loughrey
      An “aggressive” marketing campaign to sell Carisbrook ground will begin in early February, as the Dunedin City Council looks to recoup the $7 million it paid for the facility. Although no offers have been made, some major players have already looked around the stadium, council property manager Robert Clark said yesterday.

      The council bought the properties from the Otago Rugby Football Union for $7 million, and the cost of about $440,000 a year is to pay interest on the money borrowed to buy them.

      Read more

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