Buses in Dunedin CBD


### ODT Online Fri, 6 Nov 2009
Electric buses, transfer stations mooted for central city
By David Loughrey
Dunedin’s bus system could be in for some major changes as the focus moves from parking to the public transport system.
Read more

### ODT Online Wed, 4 Nov 2009
DCC considers bus station in Octagon
By Mark Price
Turning the central carriageway of the Octagon into a bus station is one of six options the Dunedin City Council is being asked to investigate. The council working party set up to review the city’s parking policies also examined the issue of bus stops in the central business district and the six options are part of its report to tomorrow’s extraordinary council meeting.
Read more

Options suggested by the Dunedin City Council’s parking review working party.-

1. Relocate Princes St bus stops to the central carriageway of the Octagon.

2. Relocate the northbound bus stop to the Octagon central carriageway.

3. Construct a bus transfer station north of the Octagon in the Moray Pl-Great King St area.

4. Consider a “high-frequency core route” through the main street with transfer points at either end.

5. Remove all bus stops between Frederick St and Moray Pl south and have the bus stop in the “through lane”.

6. Have a high-quality and high-frequency core route through the main street, with all other routes using a transfer centre in Great King St between Moray Pl and the Centre City Mall.

Extraordinary Council Meeting
The Extraordinary Council Meeting to consider Parking Issues, will be held on 5 Nov 2009 2:pm

When: Thursday 5 Nov 2009 –
Where: Council Chambers

Post by Elizabeth Kerr


Filed under Politics, Project management, Town planning

22 responses to “Buses in Dunedin CBD

  1. Richard

    Fair enough to list some of the lateral thinking that the Review Team engaged in.

    Having been actively involved in the changes in 1988-89, putting bus stops in The Octagon is, quite frankly, an absolute NO-NO!

    As is letting stationary and idling buses dominate our unique main street shopping.

    • Elizabeth

      With you there, Richard. I think Syd Brown made a useful point today at the “extraordinary” meeting (I had pre-nudged other people in the gallery on this very subject) and that is sorting the buses will require those with expert knowledge.

      Gosh. And that means the transportation planning people will need to confer strongly with the URBAN DESIGNERS, be they from within council or external to. Everybody has to confer, interested public included. Dunedin can’t afford to muck up The Octagon and the main street, ever. I mean, what would Charles Kettle say…

      • Elizabeth

        Fresh off twitter tonight.

        “The uncomfortable layout, degraded appearance and lack of natural surveillance made it the focus of anti-social behaviour”

        ### Architects’ Journal 5 November, 2009
        Bonn Square, Oxford by Graeme Massie Architects
        By Rory Olcayto
        The redevelopment of Bonn Square in Oxford is the sort of project that usually hits the buffers. An out-of-town architect, hired by the council to rework a neglected town square, proposes removing the mature trees, paving over green space and expelling traders from the site. Graves will be disturbed and the boundary wall of a listed church will be demolished. It does, of course, contradict the Local Plan. Not in my back yard.
        Read more

  2. Phil

    If the idea is to deter vehicle traffic through George Street, in favour of the One Way system, why not simply close that section of George Street during normal business hours? As per Manners Mall and Cuba Mall in Wellington. Many commercial district streets around the world are close to all traffic except for cyclists, public transport, and delivery vehicles. A proposal to use one form of transport to hinder another form sounds a little limp wristed to me.

    Does everyone remember the excercise involving the concrete protrusions and median strip placed on Princes Street in the Century Theatre block a few years back ? That was to make it annoying for people to use Princes Street, and to encourage them to use the One Way system. Didn’t work. People just queued back to the Oval and got annoyed. We’re creatures of habit down here, and unlikely to change anything voluntarily.

    I’m in favour of a more centralised bus hub or transfer centre. That’s the right attitude to encourage public use. Possibly the Octagon central carriageway might look a little trashy. But the right approach. On the days when the big cruise ships are in town, I actually think the closing of the Municipal Chambers quadrant of the Octagon, together with the downward lane of Stuart Street between Moray Place and the Octagon, works rather well. Quite a clever idea, whoever dreamed that up. While it doesn’t form part of the commuter transport solution, I wouldn’t mind seeing that quadrant closed off permanently. Moray Place is the natural roundabout.

  3. Richard

    I am informed that Mr. Kettle is very frustrated, sometimes quite angry. He agrees that it is time to bring in the urban designers and the transport experts.

    Perhaps someone like Phil and Paul (the two ‘peas’) could volunteer?

    I’ll speak further with Mr. Kettle.

    Meantime, my head is still ‘ringing’ over 5 minute parks being 5+5 from the chalk equals 15. Pity Calvin was not there with his calculator!

  4. Richard

    Oh. Mr. Kettle says he would like his original grid system restored and the one way street system ripped out or modified. Then, it seems, everything will sort itself. Understands why Castle Street cannot be put back though.

    • Elizabeth

      Paul working up the templates for duned.in, I hear.
      Richard, the gallery today was most perturbed over p5s & p10s… I had to leave for an appt, when I got back the gallery had all gone, did chalkmark enforcement non comprehension get that bad!?

  5. Elizabeth

    None of us should have to be telling DCC how to get its s*** together with transportation planning and parking, not even ODT’s editor. The July changes to parking and to the extent and location of bus stops have been a gross injustice – an exercise in utter council incompetence.

    ### ODT Online Fri, 13 Nov 2009
    Editorial: Bus realism
    The Dunedin City Council’s caution – and confusion – over possible changes to the operation of buses in the central city is palpable. After the parking debacle, where the council upset retailers, commuters, shoppers et al, the undertones of cavalier arrogance seem to have been suppressed. Councillors, and one would hope council staff, know they must proceed with much more care.
    Read more

    • Elizabeth

      ### Channel 9 News November 13, 2009 – 7:40pm
      Design Staff Look At Bus Issue
      Watch this video! Last week at an extraordinary Dunedin City Council meeting regarding parking issues, the Council decided to address the problem of buses in the central city and the demand they put on space. It’s predicted it will take 12 months to find a solution, and while the task seems complex to Council staff, University design staff have a different take on the matter.


      A story: The Guest Contradiction.

      In this video is one of Dunedin’s talented design studies staff, industrial designer Andrew Wallace.

      Andrew’s talking up new, contemporary-styled, small transit vehicles to replace the current bus system – he provides concept visuals to stimulate further discussion.

      He says the answer for Dunedin lies in increasing the frequency of vehicles; and, given the constraints of the built environment, moving to smaller, narrower vehicles. Looking at their width will be the design opportunity. He recommends their electrification and (ideally) induction charging at stops along the route, meaning no delays for commuters.

      Now. Mr Guest.
      Channel 9 interviews him, he says Council wants ideas from the public about what we should be doing with Dunedin’s public transport. Council “will look drastically outside the square”, he says.

      When asked about introducing smaller vehicles, he cuts to the quick (inside the sainted square) saying, “smaller bus use was tried in the sixties and seventies and didn’t work”.


      Mr Guest has about as much design skill as a sausage roll badly made.

  6. He is a sausage roll, badly made.

  7. By Calvin Oaten on Fri, 6 Nov 2009
    “We just can’t do it. It’s a hell of a problem.” So says Cr Michael Guest on the much discussed subject of solving the bus problems in the main Princes George Sts corridor.

    Try this: Route all Wakari, Roslyn, Maori Hill, Dunedin North and West Harbour services to a terminal at George, Park, Regent Rd, David Sts intersection. Route all Kaikorai, Mornington, Lookout Point, South Dunedin, Andersons Bay and Peninsula buses to a terminal at Market Reserve.

    Between these two terminals run a fleet (six or eight) electric noddy trains, each pulling a number of low floor easy access covered carriages.

    These would convey all passengers from either terminal along George/Princes Sts to the opposite terminal. Add or subtract carriages according to demand. They would be free to all public to board or leave at all stops along the route.

    The cost would be subsidised in part by the fares paid on the buses to the terminals. No noise, no pollution, just a quiet simple hop on, hop off system with a slightly novel appeal. Not hard, not rocket science. Probably not hugely expensive to implement, either.

    • Elizabeth

      While Michael Guest finds himself in the too hard basket, over city buses that is. Others in the snarl of major cities are giving city access much thought and innovation, as tools to city planners. And we can’t do the same in a small learned municipality!? Where do Dunedin people want to go, when and with what frequency? Is there enough demand, can a new city bus system meet that demand in a cost-effective efficient manner to lessen our dependence on cars?

      ### Technology Review Friday, November 13, 2009
      Paris versus London: Measuring a City’s Accessibility
      A new technique for measuring the accessibility of a city shows why Paris is more accessible than London. If you’ve ever visited London or Paris, you’ll know how easy it is to spend many a pleasant hour exploring Parisian boulevards and London’s squares. But which is more accessible? Now a group of physicists has worked out how to measure the accessibility of a city and found that the French capital is significantly more accessible than the British. Luciano da Fontoura Costa at the University of Sao Paulo in Brazil and few pals created a computer model of the street and underground networks in both cities.
      Read more

      Ref: http://arxiv.org/abs/0911.2028: On the Efficiency of Underground Systems in Large Cities

  8. On the Channel 9 interview Guest claims smaller bus use was tried in the sixties/early seventies and didn’t work. Is this correct? I think this would need to be double-checked – if it is possible. Otherwise we’d have to take his word for it.

    • Elizabeth

      All I can remember from the sixties and seventies is trolley buses but we always brought a car or truck to town so never used the buses. Small buses? No idea. Presumably, if they happened, small buses would have been run by Dunedin City Corporation. If no-one can solve it here, will take a look at City Archives.

      • Elizabeth

        Was googling, Hocken Collections notes:

        Bulletin 27 (April 1999):
        Carrying a Crowd: Coaches, Trams, Cable-cars and Buses

        Click to access 27_bulletin.pdf

        Prepared for the Friends of the Hocken Collections by Ray Hargreaves, with the assistance of David McDonald and Mary Lewis; edited by George Griffiths; formatted by Gary Blackman, March 1999.

  9. Richard

    Citibus did indeed run ‘small buses’ (as I recall, with a capacity of about 30 persons or so) at scheduled 10 minute intervals on the Normanby – St Clair route in the early to mid 1990s.

  10. I suspect so. He often speaks with surety and so people naturally think he must be right.

    • Elizabeth

      For people who get tired waiting for (Dunedin) buses:

      [sorry, folks – Dezeen just keeps pumping fun, educational tweets to follow]

      ### Dezeen November 10th, 2009 10:25AM
      Sleepbox by Arch Group
      By Rose Etherington
      Russian architects Arch Group have designed a booth for taking a quick nap in busy urban environments. Called Sleepbox, the units could be rented for between fifteen minutes and several hours. The architects envisage them installed at train stations, airports and shopping centres. Between users the bedding would be automatically changed, with sheets wound from one roller onto another.
      Read more

      *Dezeen architecture and design magazine
      [social networking is a powerful research tool, sign up sign up]

      • Elizabeth

        ### ODT Online Thu, 19 Nov 2009
        Bus shelter plans halted as costs soar
        By Rebecca Fox
        Costs of funding bus shelters in Dunedin have “skyrocketed”, leaving the Otago Regional Council unable to afford its proposed new shelters. Under its GoBus improvement programme, the council had committed to provide shelters on inward services by June 2013. That meant funding 252 shelters in addition to the 208 already in operation.
        Read more

        • Elizabeth

          ### ODT Online Tue, 24 Nov 2009
          Council could cut bus shelter costs
          By Rebecca Fox
          The cost of installing new bus shelters might soon fall as the Dunedin City Council makes them a permitted activity.
          This would mean resource consents would be no longer required for bus shelters, provided they met size standards and did not block footpaths.
          Read more


          Cars should NOT be removed from the main shopping thoroughfares BTW… that’s too extreme, too inconvenient, too irrational – we don’t have a rapidly increasing population, we might have already seen the worst in terms of car ownership numbers at Dunedin, need I go on!

          ### ODT Online Tue, 24 Nov 2009
          Dream solution for travel
          By Phillip Cole
          Phillip Cole argues for a Dunedin transport system incorporating frequent buses, light rail and the closing of main shopping thoroughfares to car traffic.
          Read more

        • Elizabeth

          A Tweet ESPECIALLY for Otago Regional Council. Since I really love early and late buses and am so patient a captive audience. No wonder I walk everywhere.

          Love these things. Push the route # & it tellsu when your bus is coming. http://yfrog.com/1epeduj

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