As received:
From: sts-bounces@taniwha.com [mailto:sts-bounces@taniwha.com] On Behalf Of Stop the Stadium Announcement list
Sent: Thursday, 12 November 2009 8:44 p.m.
To: sts@taniwha.com
Subject: [sts] STS Meeting reminder
To all STS members.
Notice of Special meeting, to be held at Pioneer Women’s Hall, 362, Moray Place. (near Dick Smith’s), on Sunday, 15th November, at 3:00pm.
Dear Members,
Sunday’s meeting (a rescheduling of our previous fixture) has been called to debate the future of STS. We urge you to attend and participate.
The forthcoming local body elections (now less than a year away) are likely to be more fiercely-contested than at any time in Dunedin’s recent history. Controversy is likely to intensify, rather than abate, as the existing Councils continue to operate unconstrained by financial reality. The Stadium’s new manager – a bargain at $250,000 per annum – is merely an item of petty cash to the present councillors, and it is symptomatic of our current malaise that Bevan Dodds, of Dunedin City Holdings, yesterday found himself unable to respond to a few simple points raised by Ian [Pillans] in the ODT. It would require too much editorial space, said Mr Dodds, to explain the complex financial dodgery whereby the City Council is able to conjure millions of dollars out of thin air, without cost or disadvantage to anyone. One sympathises with Mr Dodds, for this is certainly a tough assignment – but it would be nice if he were to make the attempt. At the very least we could have a good laugh – and the ODT would hardly wish to abridge such a wonderful exercise in creative jiggery-pokery.
The coming elections will be interesting, with every likelihood of a dramatic cleanout of deadwood both in the DCC and the ORC. We believe that the people who brought about the Stadium disaster (to name just the most prominent debacle) should be returned to the obscurity they merit. We believe that STS can play a useful role in achieving this.
The main business of Sunday’s meeting will be to debate changes to STS’s name and constitution. These changes, which were detailed in our previous mailout, are necessary if we intend to constructively participate in the restoration of honesty and democratic responsibility to the governance of Dunedin. Please come along on Sunday.
Dave Witherow (President). Gavin MacDonald (Vice-President). Pat Johnston (Treasurer). Carol Sawyer (Secretary). Rolf Feitscher. Darryl Ostrer. Lyndon Weggery. (Committee).
Post by Elizabeth Kerr
15 Comments
November 15, 2009 at 6:00 pm
‘STS’ might have worked out its future. What do the letters stand for post today’s meeting?
November 16, 2009 at 8:48 am
### ODT Online Mon, 16 Nov 2009
New name and focus for Stop the Stadium
By Elspeth McLean
A special meeting of Stop the Stadium group yesterday, attended by about 80 people, voted to change its name and its purpose, but not without some opposition. The vote to change the objective of the incorporated society was 71 to eight (with three abstentions), but some of those who had spoken against the move and sought instead the winding up of the organisation walked out after the vote was taken.
Read more
November 17, 2009 at 11:51 am
Latest as received (no more front billing by new post at What if?…not unless STS saves the world):
—– Original Message —–
From: Stop the Stadium Announcement list
To: sts@taniwha.com
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 9:10 PM
Subject: [sts] New STS objectives
Mailout 12.
To all STS members.
Welcome to “Sort the System”.
Stop the Stadium, following Sunday’s special meeting, has become Sort the System – a new title reflecting the changes to our organisation’s objectives, which were approved and adopted by an overwhelming majority of those attending the meeting.
It has been obvious, ever since the DCC/ORC cabal forced the Stadium upon us, that STS would have to redefine its role – and also, logically, change its title. The Stadium is being built, against our wishes and to the long-term detriment of our city. Our original objective is no longer achievable, and it is thus time to refocus upon what we can and must do if we are to reclaim basic democracy in Dunedin and limit the damage set in train by the rogue councillors now in office.
The changes necessary for us to do this were effected on Sunday, and Sort the System will henceforth work towards the restoration of an honest and responsible city administration.
Our immediate objective, self-evidently, must be to bring about the dismissal of all those ORC/DCC councillors directly culpable, and have them replaced by people of normal integrity, decency, and responsiveness to their community. This should not be very difficult, provided we retain the resolve and cohesion of the past two disillusioning years. We have withstood much – and the local-body elections are less than a year away!
A note on the matter of costs. By remaining in being (albeit with a change in name) STS remains responsible for paying costs awarded against it in the recent legal charades. We might have avoided this by closing down and reconstituting as a new incorporated entity – a course advocated by a few of those present on Sunday. This option was rejected by the great majority as an unacceptable dodging of our legal responsibilities, and it was resolved that STS would pay these costs, as and when the money was available. There is no requirement, (as a quote in the ODT today erroneously maintained), that STS “would have to pay its debt to the council before it paid for anything else”. Not so. STS will make arrangements for repayment while maintaining sufficient funds for ongoing operations.
*************
We have a new name, and a new, vital role. We hope all members will approve, and keep the faith. The past few years have been an aberration – an episode of civic delinquency that no self-respecting community can allow to continue. Together – and very soon – we can make a new beginning.
Dave Witherow (President). Gavin McDonald (Vice-President). Pat Johnston (Treasurer). Carol Sawyer (Secretary). Rolf Feitscher. Darryl Ostrer. Lyndon Weggery. (Committee).
New Members. If you have friends or family or workmates who would like to help in Sorting the System please contact the secretary, Carol Sawyer, by replying to this e-mail and she will email you the membership forms.
——————————————————————————–
_______________________________________________
Stop the Stadium announcement list
http://www.taniwha.com/mailman/listinfo/sts
November 17, 2009 at 5:04 pm
“There is no requirement, (as a quote in the ODT today erroneously maintained), that STS “would have to pay its debt to the council before it paid for anything else”. ” I wonder who the source of this opinion is?
I note on the incorporated societies website the following: An incorporated society will continue in existence as long as it files … or until its members, or a creditor, decide to bring the society to an end.
So the power will be with the city to bring STS to an end at the moment of its choosing. I wonder what moment it will choose?
November 17, 2009 at 6:56 pm
That’s a fair question. I gather the STS meeting didn’t decide any action in view of the outstanding costs to be paid.
Latest on STS website:
http://stopthestadium.org.nz/2009/11/16/new-name-and-focus-sort-the-system/
New name and focus – “Sort the System!”
At a special meeting on Sunday, we voted to change our name to Sort the System.
Our new objective is to ensure adverse impacts of the Forsyth Barr stadium being built in Awatea St are contained, as far as possible.
Click for detail.
****
That’s quite a strange and difficult mission (the new objective) if you’re not part of the system. For anyone, not just STS in its current guise. But first, what system. All a bit clayton’s unless a better statement of intent and pathway of defined actions can be agreed, to lead a membership forward. I doubt the people who turned up at the meeting are truly representative of the 1,550(?) members that Stop the Stadium had.
Nevertheless, Sort the System might do some good, time will tell.
November 17, 2009 at 7:37 pm
Your comment, [ro], is as destructive as your presence on the committee was at the time. You sound so vengeful and haven’t got the grace to cover it up. It is indeed ironic that the same people who tried to portray themselves as the ‘sensible’ ones and the ‘intelligentsia’ of STS are the ones who didn’t want to commit to paying the court costs.
{those posting comments use their name of choice, we prefer responses to follow their cue. -editors}
November 17, 2009 at 8:09 pm
I beg your pardon? Which comment of mine is destructive? Perhaps you’re confusing the message with the messenger.
November 17, 2009 at 8:27 pm
There appear to be a number of reasons why members resigned or will resign from STS. I’m not sure payment of court costs should be confused with other things, like the change of name or objective, confidence or not in the organisation’s executive committee, due process in consulting members before undertaking major items of business and or expenditure, lack of success through the courts notwithstanding the efforts of STS’s legal counsel, and so on.
The history of the stadium project has been quite hard on a lot of folk, whether they’re STS or not – thus membership, or not, of the newly fledged ‘STS’ will be subject to a considerable variance of personal intentions and assumptions. The membership, as with any organisation, has to find its strength.
November 17, 2009 at 10:43 pm
Well said Elizabeth.
It does some former members a grave injustice to imply, as Peter did, that the reason they wanted STS to fold was because they didn’t want to pay court costs. She has listed some valid alternative sources of dissatisfaction with the leadership and direction of STS. I won’t repeat them.
While deploring Peter’s usual resort to personal attack and ancient history, I must say I am intrigued by his latest post. Has STS ever had a self-proclaimed intelligentsia?
November 18, 2009 at 8:54 am
Meg
1. At the meeting it was made quite clear the reasons for folding up STS. Namely, to avoid paying court costs. There was no dishonour in doing so according to Emily Flynn. Reread the ODT report. No other reasons were given by the group of seven who supported this course of action.
2. The ‘alternative sources of dissatisfaction with the leadership and direction of STS’ it seems was very small and amounted to embittered ex committee members, and their spouses, and a handful of others.
There has always been the option to leave if you don’t like the direction. Fine. You and the others in your group have now done so.
3. I have only responded in recent times to the continual bagging of STS on this site. I have not initiated comments. Only responded. If you and your girlfriends continue to want to bag – fine – but I will respond if I can be bothered.
4. Being personal. I have never used words of abuse to describe the likes of yourself. I have only identified and named your behaviour and others. The reference to ‘ancient history’ is convenient. In fact, ‘ancient history’ puts into perspective why you and your girlfriends continue to bitch about STS.
5. It was Anne who described your group as the ‘intelligentsia’ and the others as the ‘activists’. A compliment, actually. While we ‘activists’ were busy trying to stop the stadium the ‘intelligentsia’ were more interested in debating the internal workings of the organisation. I also add one former committee member was called a ‘commoner’. The snobbery was what typified the attitudes of your group.
6. The majority of those few who have resigned have graciously thanked the STS committee for their efforts. They have resigned because now, for whatever reason, they want to no longer be involved. Contrast this with your group’s petulant behaviour.
November 18, 2009 at 11:06 am
Well, Peter, what can I say. There is no ‘group’, has been no ‘campaign’ as you earlier suggested and I’m sorry to inform you that I have not resigned. I’m waiting for the bill to arrive from the DCC so I can pay my fair share of the court costs. I suppose you will come up with some tortuous explanation for that that accords with your caricature of me as a person of low cunning and malice.
I totally reject your accusations of snobbery. It’s not for me to defend the choice of words of another person, but it is worth noting that Anne has English as a second language. I recall the comments she made and the context. She did not use those words in a pejorative sense at all. Quite to the contrary, she was reflecting on the down-to-earth views of the other committee member as a positive attribute.
These accusations are characteristic of the conspiracy theories that have dogged STS for more than a year now – most recently with the embarrassing debacle over the ODT’s supposed smear campaign, for which STS had to apologise publicly. You make up your mind someone is up to no good. From then on everything they say and do is woven into an increasingly elaborate fiction built around their supposed desire to bring STS down. It’s nothing short of pathological. Next to a basic lack of respect for anyone who disagrees with you, this, I believe, is what has harmed STS most. And it has been harmed, by its own efforts, not by people like myself. (A small number, I agree. But when you see what happens to anyone who dares to stick their head above the parapet, are you surprised?)
As for why people resigned, just because they confined themselves to discussing court costs at the meeting doesn’t mean that was their only reason for going. All the other reasons had been raised before, sometimes privately, sometimes in public, and been treated with the same scorn that has again been demonstrated here. Why start it all again?
You are right, Peter. The truth will eventually come out. It will be contained in the incontrovertible evidence of primary documents. Against these, elaborately constructed conspiracy theories are unlikely to cut much ice.
November 18, 2009 at 1:12 pm
Meg
People will ultimately judge one person, or group’s actions/statements for themselves. We’re both in the same boat in that regard.
Your comment about ‘conspiracy theories’. This throwback line, I find, is often but not always used by people when they have been caught out and want to let themselves off the hook. That comment on the website was apologised for straight away. It was unacceptable and not based on verifiable facts. That surely deflates your view that STS is beset by conspiracy theories.
Meg, I only respond to your comments. If you read them as ’scornful’, so be it. You are probably right. However you do, in my humble opinion, say things at times that deserve a response that is direct. I think it is that tone which you don’t like and take as being scorn.
(By the way, Anne is more conversant with the subtleties of the English language than what you give her credit for)
November 18, 2009 at 1:41 pm
Everyone following the news will be aware that Stop The Stadium (STS) no longer exists.
As such there’s nothing to report here on STS of old. StopTS is dead. RIP.
Sort the System (STS) has its own website to confer with the public, it will have more to say before long through its executive committee.
November 18, 2009 at 2:27 pm
Most people visiting here won’t have a clue about any of this – spot a common tendency to think everyone knows what everyone else is thinking and is privy to “everything” we ever participated in. Not so. Exclamation mark.
Otherwise the aliens would get us.
Nothing to defend, folks. Enjoy your day.
I’m off later to an architects’ site visit at one of Dunedin’s new ‘green’ institutional buildings.
November 18, 2009 at 2:49 pm
Too true Elizabeth. It’s old history and it’s bad enough Peter banging on about it without me getting in with counteraccusations of my own. Nobody knows about the stuff and guess what, Peter? Nobody cares. It just bores the pants off everybody and God knows, we all want to move on. So please could you delete my post above, Eliz or Paul.
And no, Peter, I don’t want the post deleted because I resile from any part of it. Just that we could carry on with the argy-bargy until the cows come home and it wouldn’t change anything.
{Your last message has been deleted as requested. -editors}